BRAWM TEAM: Polar Bears and Seals in Arctic: Hair Loss/skin infections
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/08/alaska-polar-bears-fur_n_141026...
Didn't a vast swath of Fukushima radiation blow over and come down on the arctic? Can't this be the cause of the ilness and death of Seals and polar bears?
Is anyone testing for this?
Andre Sakharov predicted global disease caused by global radiation from nuke tests in the 1950's: pandemics of mutated bacteria, viruses and microbes which larger species could not adapt to fast enough.
This needs to be examined.
The radiation from Fukushima is in the sea water, the arctic seas, hence in the the snow, the rain which fell there and in the food cycle.
Can BRAWM in all honesty say there is NO WAY this could be related or is it worthy of their study?
And what about Native peoples and others who rely on such seals for food? What about the rest of us who are high up on the food chain?
The lack of recent testing of our foods and soil is worrisome. IF Cesium is in these Seals and Bears and probably bioacumulating in us - can't we expect more such diseases in humans too?
and I haven't seen any figures on mortality of baby bears and seals but if the adults are sick, wouldn't this affect the babies too???
Please respond BRAWM.
More info
Everything from stressors relating to sea ice changes to radiation exposure and immune-system diseases are being considered, the report said.
Since mid-July, some 60 dead and 75 diseased seals have been reported in Alaska. Reports continue to come in from the Bering Straight region as harvesting continues in that area. In addition, skin lesions have been seen on walruses near Point Lay, where a haul-out of some 20,000 animals was studied this fall. Scientists studying the walruses, however, reported relatively low mortality rates, despite observing many animals with the lesions.
Necropsies and lab tests have found lesions, fluid in the lungs white spots on the liver and abnormal brain growths, the release said. Some animals were found with smaller-than-usual lymph nodes, which could indicate that the animal's immune system was compromised.
The abnormal lesions do not appear to be isolated to Alaska. Seals and walruses in Canada and Russia have also been noted with similar symptoms.
Sounds like radiation exposure to me. Not localized by the entire Northern hemisphere. BRAWM should test these for cesium and SOMEBODY needs to study the thyroids, bone and teeth/tusks.
THE SEALS ARE DYING FROM CHEMICAL WEAPON DUMPING
It's not radiation, the idiots in Washington ordered the dumping of millions of pounds of chemical weapons into the oceans surrounding our country. Chemical weapons have been dumped off the coastlines of almost every country in the world. Now the containers they were in are corroding to the point the contents are leaking out. We are literally seeing only the beginning of the single largest man made disaster in history. One that will dwarf the destruction of all the wars mankind has ever fought COMBINED!!
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/deadliness-belowweapons-mass-destr...
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/us-dumped-tons-nuclear-chemical-we...
re:THE SEALS ARE DYING FROM CHEMICAL WEAPON DUMPING
Yep, and don't forget the search for The Thresher off of the Boston Coast. Lookup USS Point Defiance and you will find in Wikipedia a brief mention of the search for it as well as in other accounts of the history of the USS Point Defiance.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/5307
HotCaviar
-Off my menu: All Seafoods because the oceans really are a military and industrial sewer! Yes, I will miss Anchovies on my pizza, fishsticks, red snapper, tuna (even 'chicken of the sea' is no longer 'worthy,'crab, fake crab (made with Pollock, an ocean fish), clam chowder, Nori Seaweed,Caviar etc... See: http://pstuph.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/can-ocean-currents-transport-radi...
Nice to see the
Nice to see the Millennialists haven't been deterred by twelve years with no Apocalypse. Hope of Armageddon springs eternal.
You think this is Millennialist hysteria??
Isn't it strange that people who see trouble down the road are always mocked by the frightened people who have their heads in the sand?
Isn't is also strange that,
Isn't is also strange that, despite all your end-times revelations, global average life span continues to improve?
I'm not saying that any of these things are desirable, or defensible. Only that the threat posed by such negligent, idiotic, and in fact likely criminal activity, may not be QUITE the Armageddon-trigger you and your hysterical colleagues keep insisting it is. The Doomsday Clock is forever poised at the threshhold of midnight... Yet, somehow, WE keep on ticking, so to speak.
Rick Cromack.
Seal deaths not from radiation
NOAA already tested the tissue of diseased seals and found the cause wasn't radiation from Fukushima:
Source: Reuters: Radiation ruled out, for now, as cause of Alaska seal deaths, published 2/17/2012
I suspect the same will be true for the bears.
Mark [BRAWM Team Member]
"Part of the reason it doesn't rule it out is we need to do more
"Part of the reason it doesn't rule it out is we need to do more in-depth tests for Cesium 137 and Cesium 134," Speegle said.
Mark - this is why folks get ill feelings sometimes. The article you link says specifically that they have NOT "ruled out" radiation as the cause.
Yet you say they HAVE ruled it out. They did not,
Just sayin'...
Also - the thyroid damage-virus/bacteria/fungal mutation hypothesis still remains. Did they test the thyroids? or did they just check their blubber (which might not have any accumulation of radioactive material yet). Bones and teeth and marrow need to be checked and, suffice it to say, if they have cesium 134, then they had radioiodine and it was likely from Fukushima or one of the other hundreds of toxic leaky nuclear reactors in the northern hemisphere (China?Russia/Japan/US/India leaky nukes anyone?)
OK, not absolutely ruled out
Point taken. You are right that they did not completely rule out fallout from Fukushima. My earlier post was a bit careless, thanks for the frank reply.
I looked at the NOAA report itself, and in it they conclude from their preliminary tests that "no radiation levels were found in these samples that would directly cause the symptoms seen in the pinnipeds." In other words, the seals and walruses were not suffering from radiation sickness. Radiation sickness was already a long shot though.
The NOAA report also makes these points:
There is circumstantial evidence against radiation being a "primary factor," and the preliminary investigation eliminated the most straightforward possibility. Is radiation from Fukushima completely ruled out as the cause? No. Extremely improbable? Yes.
Regardless, it will be interesting to see the Cs-134 and Cs-137 levels (or upper limits) in the animal tissues.
Mark [BRAWM Team Member]
Thanks for your good response, Mark
I guess it depends on what "extremely improbable" means though IF there is Cs 134 and 137 AND if the thyroids were impacted/damaged/mutated by iodine which is no longer detectable.
My feeling is that downplaying the possibility there is a causal relationship when we do not have any idea how much radiation was absorbed by their thyroids (causing immune system failure) or their whole bodies is not really great science. Because we cannot really quantify the exposure nor have actual results of tissue samples for Cs (or any other isotope it seems) it does seem premature to say it is extremely improbable.
But I DO appreciate your acknowledgement to my OP that it is still within the realm of possibility!
Mark - a couple of points
1. IF they haven't tested for cesium, then how do they know?
2. Iodine could have damaged their thyroids and compromised their immune systems such that they cannot fight of normal bacteria, fungi, etc and are beco9ming ill from that. Due to the short half life of radioiodine, there would be none in the tissues and THAT could still be responsible for these diseases (And if the kelp got it, as is now being reported, sea animals did too)
3. If the seals and bears did not themselves bioaccumulate enough in their tissues to be above the mda, this does not mean that the fungi, virused, bacteria and pathogens were not mutated by these "low levels" and developed new traits that the bears and seals (who may have compromised thyroids and immune systems to boot) cannot resist. This is a primary theory related to Lyme disease which began most severely downwind of several nuclear facilites in close proximity. The spirochetes , which we had coexisted with for millennia, suddenly mutated into something that could kill us. THAT was Sakharov's point and my point in my OP.
4. Thanks for the new milk tests.If it is in the milk it is also pretty much in everything. Because milk production in cows bioaccumulates the radiocesium we see it better here. But it is also in a lot of other places., so
Soil testing would be nice, especially, and plants that the cows feed on.
BTW - This is Bill from the east coast and I keep reading and hoping and appreciating MOST of what you do here.
Hi Bill, good to hear from
Hi Bill, good to hear from you. I just responded to another poster above, and I addressed some of these issues.
Mark [BRAWM Team Member]
Nice to get the acknowledgement, Mark, Still following closely
Though not as often.
I really really hope we can see some soil tests soon as well as check to see if there is uptake in spinach, strawberies etc.
If it is in the hay and feed and bioccumulating in cow's udders, then it must be in a lot of things, n'est-ce pas?
Really they have not even tested in depth for cesium ...
Also the article you posted a link too leaves way more question than answers..
------
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/18/us-alaska-seals-radiation-idUS...
"The findings that appear to clear the Fukushima plant of blame are only preliminary, Juneau-based NOAA spokeswoman Julie Speegle said, and more analysis will be conducted. Tests on healthy animals also found normal levels of radiation.
"Part of the reason it doesn't rule it out is we need to do more in-depth tests for Cesium 137 and Cesium 134," Speegle said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/18/us-alaska-seals-radiation-idUS...
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3162
Technical Announcement:
Polar Bears in Alaska Observed with Patchy Hair Loss and other Skin Lesions
Released: 4/6/2012 3:07:51 PM
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3162
---------------
http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/radiationtypes.html
Beta Radiation
Beta radiation is a light, short-range particle and is actually an ejected electron. Some characteristics of beta radiation are:
Beta radiation may travel several feet in air and is moderately penetrating.
Beta radiation can penetrate human skin to the "germinal layer," where new skin cells are produced. If high levels of beta-emitting contaminants are allowed to remain on the skin for a prolonged period of time, they may cause skin injury.
Beta-emitting contaminants may be harmful if deposited internally.
Most beta emitters can be detected with a survey instrument and a thin-window GM probe (e.g., "pancake" type). Some beta emitters, however, produce very low-energy, poorly penetrating radiation that may be difficult or impossible to detect. Examples of these difficult-to-detect beta emitters are hydrogen-3 (tritium), carbon-14, and sulfur-35.
Clothing provides some protection against beta radiation.
Examples of some pure beta emitters: strontium-90, carbon-14, tritium, and sulfur-35.
http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/radiationtypes.html
Mark without seeing what radiation tests have done or run on said samples ,your conclusion strikes me as preliminary...did the tests include pure beta emitters?would that matter?
A story on beta radiation leak at Fukushima
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201204050045
No good dead goes
No good dead goes unpunished.
A bunch of post-docs and grad students who happen to have access to a germanium detector decide to use their free time to collect some samples and quantify what's reaching the west coast. As a public service they post their results on the internet.
They're accused of being government stooges and part of the cover-up.
They're accused of failing to test anything and everything under the sun (using their own free time of course).
Apparently now they're obligated to mount an expedition to the arctic to collect samples for testing from seals. [eyeroll]
BRAWM did a truly outstanding job of quantifying the fallout reaching the west coast and their efforts are a testament to the caliber of scientists at UCB. But there's a subset of the public that will never be satisfied no matter how much you do and it's time to shut this effort down and move on with your lives.
Not even close half lives indicate study for many decades
"A bunch of post-docs and grad students who happen to have access to a germanium detector decide to use their free time to collect some samples and quantify what's reaching the west coast. As a public service they post their results on the internet."
Not even close to the facts mr. In fact if you cared to know brawm has published research .funded with public tax dollars in fact the department of energy and homeland security provided funds.two govt agency's paid for with tax dollars .as far as shutting down there effort it's more likely the brawm team could use some more grants to study the pacific ocean and contaminated "low level"seafood we will be eating in the coming years...
I'd love for BRAWM to comment
I'd love for BRAWM to comment on how much of their federally funded, public budget has gone to underwrite or defray costs associated with their Fukushima-related acquisition of samples, testing, research, analysis, and public commentary. My bet: precisely 0.000%.
It's possible some of their lab hours are being compensated through the course of their normal employment, but I bet that's about it. I guess the cost for the upgraded Forum probably comes out of their university budget, and of course the E-mails and server space and bandwidth are generally funded, but I would speculate that that's about as far as it goes.
But... What's your point? There are THOUSANDS of publicly funded and privately backed universities and other institutions all over the continent, and only a handful have bothered with Fukushima-related testing. Of those, BRAWM is BY FAR the MOST inquisitive, comprehensive, responsive, thoughtful, and committed. Yet they get crapped on by EVERYBODY. No one cares that they do this stuff IN ADDITION to their "normal" course- and workload, which by any conventional measures is probably significant. No one gives a whit for the time they take away from doing research that actually interests them, that might further their career, that might permit them to do great things in their field, to be published, make contacts, etc., etc., etc. Never mind the stress and attention not paid to their personal lives, hobbies, interests, families, love lives, etc. And then they get to read our complaints, mine included, about how they don't DO enough, answer endless repetitive questions, try to keep Forum contributors from bouncing off the padded ceiling, and are responsible for the fact that there's just about no one else in their fields or disciplines even attempting what they do month in, month out. Not to mention the conspiracy theorists accusing them of concealing, modifying, or outright falsifying data to serve their corporate or DoD masters, of collaborating with Big Nuclear to decimate the species, and of running some sort of elaborate PsyOp campaign here to befuddle the fifteen or so readers they've managed to hold onto these past fourteen months. I'm surprised they haven't become alcoholics, frankly. I would have.
Rick Cromack.
Now you know the data/ brawm is not working for free are they??
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/chancellor-uc-berkeley-morphing-f...
"Federal research funds often pay professors' salaries over the summer, and also provide essential financial support to undergraduates and graduate students, Birgeneau noted. One example: undergraduates are paid to work in his campus laboratory, using research funds from the Department of Energy."
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/chancellor-uc-berkeley-morphing-f...
Ucb funding data
Chancellor: UC Berkeley morphing into federal university
February 23, 2011 | Louis Freedberg
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/chancellor-uc-berkeley-morphing-f...
"When he became chancellor more than six years ago, he explained, the largest chunk of funding – about $450 million – came from the state. Federal research funding totaled about $300 million. Student fees brought in about $150 million, with philanthropy providing slightly less. The campus' endowment generated about $100 million to $120 million.
By this year, the funding breakdown for Berkeley had changed completely. Federal research funds bring in $500 million. Student fees yield $315 million (and will increase to $340 million next year). Private philanthropy yields about the same amount. "
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/chancellor-uc-berkeley-morphing-f...
Tdm...
Data indicates funding sources not 0.000% federal $
Observations of Fallout from the Fukushima Reactor Accident in San Francisco Bay Area Rainwater
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024330
Funding: This work was supported by the United States Department of Homeland Security (www.dhs.gov), and by the United States Department of Energy (www.doe.gov). The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.
This paper was not BRAWM.
This paper was not BRAWM. Most of the students spent time away from their research to do the testing. So essentially it was like free work, but it did get useful results.
Amen, and amen, and amen. The
Amen, and amen, and amen.
The BRAWM Team is a victim of its own intellectual curiosity, scientific discipline, and civic virtue... And of a Government (many Governments, actually) that have, as I have said on several occasions, continued to whistle past their own graveyard. Desperately frightened, institutionally underserved, deliberately ignored and continually marginalized citizens can be expected to behave irrationally and even aggressively when the unnerving sound of silence threatens to metasticize into whispers in their heads of irresponsibility, conspiracy and even deliberately destructive intent. The echo chamber of poor leadership and paranoia drives good people to lock themselves up in their houses even as they contemplate fomenting revolution in the streets against a Government they cannot help but frame as hostile to their interests, their safety, and even their existence. The BRAWM Forum is a case study in how ruling regimes and even the most noble and responsible institutions lose their credibility, their reputations and their publics by virtue of poor and inconsistent communication, the promotion of jargon over comprehension, a lack of responsiveness, the elevation of data over responsible interpretation of same, an unwillingness to address the more fantastic fears and speculations and those who voice them, and, most destructive of all, a total lack of engagament or argumentation with those who genuinely have different agendas and are using the current and ongoing crisis as a means to further their own reputations, their ambitions, their politics, their interests, and/or their entertainment. When no one is speaking clearly, even the most muddled and profane pronouncements are given too much credence.
This is why I no longer contribute to this discussion, and why so many others have abandoned BRAWM and now "go it alone". It's not BRAWM's responsibility to soothe and succor a terrified (though perhaps fractional) segment of the poulation -- except that they're the only ones even nominally mounting an effort to. As I have said repeatedly, they, and we, have been left to our own devices, our own suspicions, and our own conclusions by a multitude of public and private concerns that simply DO NOT GIVE A DAMN what we think, or why, or to what ends. BRAWM is the lone traffic cop standing in the middle of New Orleans as the floodwaters rose. They're overwhelmed, underequipped, and will take the blame for much that is not, strictly speaking, their concern... Because they're HERE, and NO ONE ELSE IS.
And, for that, I honor them, respect them, thank them... And pity them. They have, and always did have, a particularly unenviable task. The fact that they remain committed to it to ANY degree is a testament to their worth as human beings, as American citizens, and as scientists and explorers, and also an indictment of the complete and utter worthlessness of most of their peers, their employers and the so-called "public servants" that serve nothing and no one but themselves. If I'd have won the Mega Millions lottery, a substantial portion of it would be going to BRAWM and to UCB's Department of Nuclear Engineering. But, words are easy, and I've broken my rule and said too many.
Rick Cromack.
Freudian slap?
Methinks thou doest protest too much.
Samples in meat can be sent to brawm IF THEY ARE WILLING TO TEST THEM! No Arctic expedition required.
But the fact is that testing for radionuclides should be done by SOMEONE, Right? RIGHT?
No, you say. Don't test anymore.
I have asked people I trust to give me the data (BRAWM) on the testing to respond or check it out. Why not?
You want to shut down the BRAWM forum? Why?
"But the fact is that testing
"But the fact is that testing for radionuclides should be done by SOMEONE, Right? RIGHT?"
Sure. Go buy a germanium detector and do it yourself.