Canadian testing results and questions for Mark

Dear Mark/ BRAWM:

So great to get some more testing results from you, thank you! A group in western Canada has carried out testing on over 25 items through a certified lab.

None of the following samples tested showed a presence of Cs 134, 137 or I 131 above detectable levels: Pacific sockeye and chum salmon (meat and liver); kale (2x); organic blueberries, tap water, rain water, snow melt; wild mushrooms (Bolestes and Chanterelles); house dust; mixed grass/ hay; maple leaves; milk; homo milk (3.25%, organic); skim milk (organic); soy milk; tofu; soil (4x).

One soil sample had 10 Bcq/kg of Cesium 137. As no Cs 134 was detected, can we assume that this is not likely Fukushima-related?

Overall, the results seem reassuring, although the lab's MDAs appear to be on the high side, certainly much higher than yours.

However, one concern is over gross alpha radiation (several hundred Bcq/ kg) in two soil samples, and detectable alpha radiation in rain, snow and drinking water. (There was no Cs 134/ 137 or I 131 detected in these samples).

The question for you/ BRAWM: Is it physically possible that alpha-emitting fission products/ isotopes from Fukushima made it to Canada without the detectable presence of radio Cesium or Iodine? (I.e., are there lighter isotopes that could be travelling further?) Or is it reasonable to believe the alpha sources are natural (and why)? (Unfortunately, the lab used cannot do alpha spectroscopy to determine which alpha-emitting isotopes are present). Any advice on how/ where it would be possible to do further testing on these samples? Thank you so much!

Some answers

Very interesting to hear about those tests. You raised a number of questions, so I'll try to address them all:

  1. As no Cs 134 was detected, can we assume that this is not likely Fukushima-related?

    Due to the particular burn-up characteristics of the Fukushima reactors, the Cs-137 to 134 ratio should be approximately 1:1. We saw this in our air and water samples. When we started measuring soil samples, we at first saw a 1:1 ratio but then measured some samples with higher ratios, like one with a ratio of 30:1. The excess Cs-137 cannot be from Fukushima because Cs-134 should also be there in the same amount. The excess Cs-137 must be that which was deposited by weapons testing decades ago, which dispersed trace amounts of fission products all over the world.

  2. Is it physically possible that alpha-emitting fission products/ isotopes from Fukushima made it to Canada without the detectable presence of radio Cesium or Iodine?

    No, I would not expect to see alpha emitters without seeing Cs-134 and Cs-137. The vast majority of materials that were released from the Fukushima reactors were the very volatile fission product isotopes I-131, Cs-137, and Cs-134. (By the way, all fission products are beta and gamma emitters; no fission products are alpha emitters.) Any alpha emitters in nuclear fuel are actinides like Uranium and Americium, but on the whole these are not volatile. When compared with the iodine and cesium isotopes, actinides could only have been released in extremely trace amounts.

  3. However, one concern is over gross alpha radiation (several hundred Bcq/ kg) in two soil samples, and detectable alpha radiation in rain, snow and drinking water.

    Alpha radiation is very common in nature. There are many naturally-occurring alpha emitters — the ubiquitous Uranium-238 and Thorium-232 decay chains each contain several isotopes that emit alphas. One example is Radon-222, one of the isotopes of radon gas, which is produced from the decay of U-238 in soils and minerals.

    One discussion you might be interested in on this forum is a question some farmers had about gross alpha and beta measurements of soil samples. They were surprised at the levels of gross alpha and beta counts — they saw a few hundreds of Becquerels per kilogram. To help understand how that could be, I took our gamma-ray measurements of soil and used the isotopic information we get to infer what the gross alpha and beta should be for our samples. I calculated that the average gross alpha we had was about 170 Bq/kg, and our handful of samples fell in the range 50–370 Bq/kg. This variation is simply caused by the large natural variations in the content of U-238 and Th-232 in minerals. You can read the discussion here.

  4. Any advice on how/ where it would be possible to do further testing on these samples?

    I do not have any specific recommendations, just that the lab be equipped to perform alpha spectroscopy and have the radiochemistry necessary to prepare samples. However, I don't think there is anything to worry about. You would only end up finding that nature provides a great deal of alpha radiation already from the ≈ 14 alpha emitters in the U-238 and Th-232 decay series. Any non-natural sources, whatever their origin, would only be trace amounts.

Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

Dear Mark, Thank you so much

Dear Mark,
Thank you so much for taking the time for your comprehensive explanation. I have been following the forum since the spring, so aware of the discussions around naturally occurring alpha and beta, radon, etc., but will re-read. I just seemed strange to have such a high amount of alpha and beta (and the ratio of 1:1) in two samples, and none in two others. I hope you will stay around to monitor the discussion and jump in when able! All the best!

No problem

Happy to help. Let me know if I can help you understand anything else about your samples.

Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

What was the MDA?

A question for the original poster - what MDA values did your lab provide? Just curious.

BC 1/19

Hi BC, the MDAs seemed quite

Hi BC, the MDAs seemed quite high and varied for each sample. I will dig them up for you in the next couple of days. I really appreciate your thoughtful and balanced postings and testing. Thanks for that and for sticking around despite so much unexplainable abuse and hostility by/ among some contributors.

Hey, you are welcome and

Hey, you are welcome and thank you for adding to our body of knowledge!

BC 1/20/12

BTW, the lab I (and tdm and I think MadMama too) used has an MDA for Cs-134 in soil of about .52 bq/kg, but they can spot activity below that and in fact my soil levels of Cs-134 were just a smidge below that.

Testing 123 in Canada

"Radioactive iodine in rainwater: Public was in the dark"

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Radioactive+iodine+rainwater+Public+...

"After the Fukushima nuclear accident, Canadian health officials assured a nervous public that virtually no radioactive fallout had drifted to Canada.

But last March, a Health Canada monitoring station in Calgary detected an average of 8.18 becquerels per litre of radioactive iodine (an isotope released by the nuclear accident) in rainwater, the data shows.

The level easily exceeded the Canadian guideline of six becquerels of iodine per litre for drinking water, acknowledged Eric Pellerin, chief of Health Canada's radiation-surveillance division.

"It's above the recommended level (for drinking water)," he said in an interview. "At any time you sample it, it should not exceed the guideline."

Canadian authorities didn't disclose the high radiation reading at the time.

In contrast, the state of Virginia issued a don't-drink-rainwater advisory in late March after iodine levels in rain in a nearby city spiked to 3.4 becquerels per litre on a single day. That was less than half of the level seen in Calgary during the entire month of March."

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Radioactive+iodine+rainwater+Public+...

Probably not

Is it physically possible that alpha-emitting fission products/ isotopes from Fukushima made it to Canada without the detectable presence of radio Cesium or Iodine?
===============

First, the fission products are beta-emitters, not alpha. The actinides are alpha emitters; Uranium, Plutonium, Americium...

Fission products like Cesium and Iodine are found in both the fuel and in the gap between fuel and cladding. Actinides are in the fuel. In case of zirconium cladding failure, you can have fission product release ( from the gap ) without actinide release if the fuel doesn't melt.

If the fuel melts, you get both actinide release and fission product release. So any alpha-emitting actinides would most certainly be accompanied by beta-emitting fission products.

I do believe the OP said

I do believe the OP said 'Dear Mark/BRAWM' and not "Dear Forum Industry Shill Thread Stalker'
LOL!!
Mark and or BRAWM may or may not corroborate your info, but I think we all understand you, my friend.

It looks like...

It looks like Mark corroborated everything your so-called "Industry Shill Thread Stalker" said. So what's the complaint?

Yes, exactly, that was the

Yes, exactly, that was the hope: Mark or somebody from the BRAWM Team--hoping for meaningful scientific advice. But maybe ====== is now part of the team?!
Mark, would you be able to respond to the question directly? And you may also be able to answer what a roughly 1:1 ratio of alpha to beta radiation in the sample may indicate?

The fuel in Fukushima melted.

The fuel in Fukushima melted. The samples also show beta radiation, about 1:1 ratio to alpha radiation. The assumption was that this could be from naturally occurring Potassium. But maybe not. I am hoping for an answer by BRAWM also. Thanks!

I like to think BRAWM's

I like to think BRAWM's suggestions are more objective than this sock puppet who is stalking all the threads in this forum and won't reveal who he represents. What a creep.

I represent myself

Why is it that the anti-nukes "think" ( term used loosely ) that the only time someone would support nuclear power is if they "represent" someone, or have a financial stake in the matter.

I represent only myself. I'm a retired Professor of Physics. I speak only for myself. I do not represent a university, nor a company. I, nor anyone in my family, has any stake in the nuclear power industry.

My only allegiance is to science. I get so tired of the misrepresentations of all the pinhead anti-nukes. I saw enough of those morons when I was teaching them in class. They couldn't put their self-righteous agendas aside for long enough to learn the real science. It's kind of like what we see here.

". . . the only time someonee would support nuclear power . . .

Do you condone the manufacture of huge quantities of deadly nuclear waste that can never be safely disposed of? Bury it at sea, in Third World countries, the wilds of New Mexico, on top of a nuclear generator (Fukushima — brilliant), anywhere but near the consumers of nuclear power. Perhaps as a retired professor of physics you are not all that concerned about the dangers of natural disasters and man-made damage to the stability of nuclear power plants and "storage facilities," or the health of future generations.

FALSE premise.

Do you condone the manufacture of huge quantities of deadly nuclear waste that can never be safely disposed of?
========================

NO - but you don't have to. Spent nuclear fuel can be reprocessed / recycled and the long lived components transmuted to short-lived radionuclides. This is what all the other nuclear power countries do.

See interview with nuclear physicist Dr. Charles Till, then with Argonne National Lab in this Frontline interview:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews/till.html

A: Eventually, what happens is that you wind up with only fission products, that the waste is only fission products that have, most have lives of hours, days, months, some a few tens of years. There are a few very long-lived ones that are not very radioactive.

>The samples also show beta

>The samples also show beta radiation, about 1:1 ratio to alpha radiation.

Do you have a link to those test results?