Collective Sampling Effort - please help!
Posted by BC 7/20
First and foremost, I want to yet again thank the good people who have done the sampling work at UCBNE and provided this forum. In no way would I ever downplay their efforts, they have gone above and beyond what anyone else has done and for no pay. Full respect.
There has been a huge amount of concern about food sampling, and the team's testing has pointed to very small levels in the items tested. Still, BRAWM has tested a relatively small number of food products, and many have commented on items that they would like to see testing done on - peppers, tomatoes, grapes, meat, eggs, etc.
In my opinion, it is likely that these food products will show a declining trend, much as the levels in strawberries and grass which are now below MDA. However, like many here, I would like to see testing on a few more items, and I know full well that I have no right at all to jump up and down and demand that BRAWM do it. As I said before, they have done more than any of us could ask for already.
Now to my point - TDM posted a link a couple of days back for a lab that will test samples. I have contacted them for pricing and MDA inforamtion. The price is $250 per sample (1 kg), and the MDA is around 0.4bq/kg (not as good as BRAWMs, but a damned sight better than a geiger counter). Turnaround time is 2 weeks.
Here's my challenge to all of you - let's put this to bed, one way or another. Do you have something you want sampled? Pony up. I am going to have a couple done myself. Let's do this collectively, and we could address many of these concerns. $250 is a fair price, and if 10 or 20 of us here could do just one each and share the info, we could significantly expand the body of knowledge about what is really going on out there.
What first? Soil in your location? Cherries from Washington state? How about free-range eggs or meat? Chime in here guys.
C'mon, let's talk this thing over and see if we can get some good info. Here is the link to the place that does the testing -
http://www.environmental-expert.com/news/radiation-food-testing-at-emsl-...
Email
Hey BC,
Give me a shout at: Seamom@ymail.com.
Looking forward to discussing the testing with you.
Cheers,
Seattle Mom
It does need to be
It does need to be organized, one place where all can post/archive info. I hate to presume upon our hosts here unless they express interest in doing so. Ideas anyone?
For all active on this thread, would you please pick a username? It is difficult to know who is who without one.
FWIW, my first sample will be soil. I am going to pack some up over the weekend and get it sent in next week.
Testing
I live in Santa Barbara. I have been planning on testing my soil and avocados, and I have been looking for a truly qualified lab(s). Personally, I would divide my samples in half and send each half to a separate lab. Not cheap, I know. But, there are no alternatives.
I am not sure that I will use the lab so mentioned. I need to check them out. I will have time to do that next week, I hope.
I will share all results here.
In any event, the person who started this thread is correct. We need to do this ourselves. Let's do it and post all results.
Blueberries from farm and,soil
I am not sure how much longer brawm will be hosting this forum??? as stated there testing is winding down.with that said I will be glad to post my test results hoping they are below the mda.test america st Louis lab is a resource as well I believe test America is a reputable lab.
Location
I am farl northern California.anyone in Oregon ,Washington,Canada even Alaska. Let's try to cover as much as ground as possible and as bc stated let's put this to rest.
I guess the main concern
I guess the main concern would be: are these guys just looking to make some spending cash or take advantage of our concern? How can we guarantee that the samples will be treated scientifically/even be tested? Pardon my distrust, but you know, these days...
I would love to participate, as long as we could somehow confirm the legitimacy of their claims...you know how BRAWM lets visitors into their labs? Something like that...
The company profile seems on up and up.
"EMSL Analytical has been offering environmental testing services since 1981. The company has over 30 laboratories across the United States and Canada that offer a variety of environmental testing services and sampling supplies and products.
To learn more about testing for radioactive materials or other environmental issues please visit www.EMSL.com, call (800) 220-3675 or email info@EMSL.com.
About EMSL Analytical, Inc.
EMSL Analytical, Inc. is one of the leading testing laboratories with over 39 locations throughout the United States and Canada. EMSL is a nationally recognized and locally focused provider specializing in radiological, consumer product, environmental, industrial hygiene, indoor air quality, microbiology, radon, food and materials testing services to professionals and the general public. EMSL maintains an extensive list of accreditations from leading organizations as well as state and federal regulating bodies including, but not limited to A2LA, AIHA EMLAP, AIHA IHLAP, AIHA ELLAP, NVLAP, CDC Elite, CPSC, CA ELAP, NY ELAP, TX DOH, NJDEP and multiple other state accrediting agencies. Please visit our website at www.EMSL.com for a complete listing of accreditations."
About EMSL Products Division
reputation...
I would look at the reputation of the lab and their quality control--most good labs will participate in some kind of independent verification trials and they should be happy to tell you what their system is. I have a passing acquaintance with professional testing labs and the ones I know take their reputation for accuracy very seriously indeed.
The unusual thing is to find a lab that will test for members of the public. The ones that will are rare--so I would give the guys at this one a chance to show you what they can do. If they are professional in attitude, they will not be at all offended by an honest question asking them what their 'quality control' system consists of. Another good question to ask them is whether they are willing to explain the significance of the results, how they compare with average levels found pre-Fuku, etc. I favor the labs that are wiling to communicate.
Citizen contamination testing of food, water etc is on the up as governments and companies get more and more secretive, and collaborative testing in the way suggested by the OP is the way of the future. I am not the OP and live on another continent so cannot easily chip in--but if there was someone offering to do this in my neck of the woods, I'd go for it!
Test some oranges
I sure do miss my freshly squeezed organic orange juice in the morning.
I am a skeptic though, I would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to Fukushima Nuclear pollution in my foods.
I don't know how to measure the labs intentions, and testing methods I really would not know how to check the facts on this issue.
I see the lab's intentions
I see the lab's intentions as...making money. You pay them $250, you get a test result.
Can we guarantee accuracy? Well it's gotta be better than a guy with a geiger counter running around and scanning stuff for 15 seconds, right?
Worth a try. What should we
Worth a try. What should we collect first?
What is your general
What is your general location? I think it would be very good for us to test samples that are from a known location. What type of food is grown in your locale? Looking at Radnet, etc, do you have any idea how much may have come your way?
My current priority items are fruit from PNW and meat/egg samples. I think it would be great if we could get some free range eggs from a known location and known feed local to that area and have them tested. Also, I really want to see how a wild, free range herbivore tests out, preferably a small one that has mostly consumed post-FK greenery in it's lifespan.
Soil from anywhere would be ideal. If anyone out there is from Boise or the surrounding area, that would be great, that area really needs soil testing I believe. BTW, a huge amount of dried beans come from Idaho, as do many other food products.
I know the local potato growers. I think that would be great to test, as potatoes are eaten in abundance. They harvest late in the year.
I like your idea. I've been
I like your idea. I've been doing alot of research and heres the deal about Washington State, these have been alot of spills. You navy guys probably already knew that submarine dumped coolant into the sound back in the seventies. Hanford has contaminated the columbia river. If you are curious about the health effects of long term low dose exposure start with the tribes that have been fishing downstream for the last few decades. sorry for typing errors. I'm on a cheap phone browser.
Great idea! I'm lookng to
Great idea! I'm lookng to get some soil tested. I'm in Phoenix. If i get anything done which may not be that soon I willpost!
I think this is a great
I think this is a great idea. I am in the Vancouver, BC area. Let me know how to help.
Well, what do you want to
Well, what do you want to test? Soil or food? Local apples, or cherries? Ocean fish testing is way premature, in my opinion.
One thing that I am thinking is that soil will give a level if you have recieved any appreciable fallout at all, and soil levels could be used as a general indicator of the level of local fallout experienced. BRAWM has consistently found Cs134+Cs137 activities of ~2bq/kg in their soil. I would rather take a soil test and get some info than test something "low probability" and get no data and think that everything is fine. So I am increasingly thinking that soil is the place to start. You want peaty soil if possible as it soaks it up, and I would try for an area with low drainage - bare level ground should give a better idea of the true deposition. If you were to test soil froma bowl-like area I would assume that you could get more contamination. I would aim for a sample taken no deeper than say 2" or so. Obviously, soil from very deep will show nothing at all. Also, we have to keep in mind that lawns and areas like that may skew the results - a lot of the junk could have been mowed up and be gone by now.
Bottom line - if you can afford to do one test and one only, I think you have to start with soil. If the soil comes backs ND or very low, there may be no reason to test further in your locale.
The lab is EMSL. Contact is Garrett Ray - gray@EMSL.com.
lackadaisical sporadic
Sounds like a good place too start. I would also say testing the water source would be equally as important for good known end results.
So WHY is our Government not doing the testing? We know this crap is out there, we just don't know the exact locations and the overall accumulated amounts. For some reason we seem to wait until the lackadaisical sporadic testing finally picks it up in the milk, beef, peaches or whatever before we realize... "hey, maybe a whole lot more testing needs to be done!"
Most of us know that the likelihood of the Fuku situation will get worse or continue, before it gets better, if it does at all. (regardless of what the media says or doesn't say) Now is the time we should be TESTING and preparing. To say that what we are getting from Fuku is negligible, (may have been somewhat true 4 months ago), is insane and not good science overall in my opinion. We know we are in uncharted territories. We know fallout comes down randomly based on many factors and that it accumulates. The fact is there are many things about this that we do not know, but we are no doubt... going to find out.
I do not want to have Cesium in my consumables at all! I don't care about so called 'acceptable limits'. I want Cesium Free, like it's used to be, like it's supposed to be!
I guess what it comes down to is... What do you want? What do people of this planet really want? ...Electricity from Nuclear Power or Cesium Free milk, hamburgers, food and water? What do people 'really' need? Think about it.
I think soil IS the best
I think soil IS the best place to start. Also I'm thinking that maybe if individuals can not afford $250.00 they could get together with say 5 friends in the same town and each chip in $50.00 to get a soil sample done. That is what I am going to try to do. Just hope I can find 5 people that are concerned enough to go for it! :0
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I sent my first soil sample
I sent my first soil sample to the EMSL lab today (not UCBNE). I had wanted to get it done sooner, but I do have a life (sort of, anyhow).
I will post results when I get 'em.
How about it guys? Have any of you sent some stuff in?
My next target material to have tested is free range meat...
Timing of Samples
When you get your results, could you possibly post them somewhere in a PDF or scanned format (blacking out any personal info). I would love to see exactly how detailed the reports are before I order one. For example, how many isotopes are tested for? What other contaminants are shown?
Also, not to complicate this project, but as others have noted, this is an ongoing situation. The contamination will continue to occur and grow until all the pools and reactors are FULLY controlled (stop steaming / emitting garbage), and until the Japanese stop burning their contaminated waste, sending yet more toxics our way. Thus, I think it is premature to "put this to bed", and I think any data gathered now should be considered "interim" results.
If there are people who live in the same general area, perhaps they could submit samples staggered by a few months. I live in the PNW and suspect our soil contamination levels will go up after the coming fall and winter's rains. Therefore, I plan to hold off on participating until I can get a a more complete sense of what the total contamination until the reactors are truly controlled. Hopefully, a sample this spring will be make sense in this context.
Give me an email to send
Give me an email to send them to and I will give you the full report. Just make a junk email account.
BTW, a sample this coming spring would mean much more if you had a sample from now. If you should wish to pursue this option, I will help you with the nuts n bolts.
BC
Waiting for your results
Have you gotten your results back yet? I am curious what your experience was with this lab (before I send my soil sample in). We are all waiting for your results!
The lab advertises a 2 week
The lab advertises a 2 week turn-around, they are about 10 days into that.
I will post results as soon as received.
Waiting for results on wild
Waiting for results on wild Sockeye salmon sent to SRC (Canada). Some others are preparing and shipping samples in Canada and we will post them.
Tuna vs. Salmon
Tuna from a recent catch might be a better test - I understand that the tuna's were in Japanese waters before they migrated toward the US west coast.
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Anyone tested anything from
Anyone tested anything from Vancouver, Canada?
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