How do you explain all these Fukushima reactor meltdowns and no radiation?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672665/pg961
This thread titled "Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake" is a 960+ page thread on the Above Top Secret(ATS) forum.
Now, I know you may consider this ATS forum a waste of space and a joke, however they do have some qualified people posting and some possibly with more real-world experience than some of you here at Berkeley. Anyway, without getting into aguments, the thread has been correct on predicting many of the since-revealed facts about the unfolding drama.
The point I am making is that we know now that there are at least 3 melted cores in the Fukushima site and radiation is is being emitted both into the air and into the sea in vast quantities.
We also know that the winds from Japan mostly blow towards USA, so why isn't it being detected by your air samplers?
We have this: "Unit 3 is
We have this:
"Unit 3 is receiving more cooling water because it is likely the hottest reactor. According to new temperature data, unit 3 feedwater nozzle temperature was 154.6°C, RPV temperature of 129.1°C as of 27 June. Unit 1 readings were 115.9°C and 100.8°C; unit 2 readings were 109.7°C and 119.5°C, respectively."
http://www.neimagazine.com/story.asp?sectioncode=72&storyCode=2059992
Concurrently with this:
"Now quite a while back on this thread someone posted an excellent link to stainless steel corrosion and life span , and it started my thinking about physical mechanisms for aerosolization , lso the physical and chemical methods of particalized uranium and plutonium getting into solution ( certainly now a huge problem that we know containment can and has been breached , and cooling of meltdowns is in practice admittedly ), but..
I had forgotten the extensiveness of our old friends Seebeck and Peltier and how the reversibility of these effects related to the chemical and physical properties of Galvanic Corrosion "
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672665/pg963#pid11691526
Additionally from the previous link:
"Lee Erb posted the list of the most to least reactive anodic (active transport in seawater) metals
here are the top 25 (of 92 listed), most reactive at the top :
1.Magnesium
2.Mg alloy AZ-31B
3.Mg alloy HK-31A
4.Zinc (hot-dip, die cast, or plated)
5.Beryllium (hot pressed)
6.Al 7072 clad on 7075
7.Al 2014-T3
8.Al 1160-H14
9.Al 7079-T6
10.Cadmium (plated)
11.Uranium
12.Al 218 (die cast)
13.Al 5052-0
14.Al 5052-H12
15.Al 5456-0, H353
16.Al 5052-H32
17.Al 1100-0
18.Al 3003-H25
19.Al 6061-T6
20.Al A360 (die cast)
21.Al 7075-T6
22.Al 6061-0
23.Indium
24.Al 2014-0
25.Al 2024-T4
Nestled right in the the various aluminum alloy near the top at number eleven is ...Uranium... "
So there is one clear possible transport mechanism for uranium.
A long time ago in that thread we find this:
"The issue is that the zircaloy cladding (the 'casings') melted into liquid pools along with the fuel. Once the fuel rods become corium, they are useless for anything other than polluting the environment and we have no way to stop them from reacting. Those three balls of corium are still putting out heat and radiation, even though they are sitting inside bedrock, and there is no known power on the planet that can stop them as long as they are in one big blob. A reactor uses rods that absorb the neutrons (control rods) sitting in between the fuel rods to control the reaction. That won't work when the whole mess melts into a puddle."
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672665/pg35&mem=TheRedneck
Considered with this:
"The other side of that coin is that by doing so, they are going to intentionally cause another China Syndrome. Unit #2 will melt down, drill into the bedrock, cool, and sit quietly spewing radiation just like Unit #3 did, and quite possibly like Unit #1 is doing. It will still pollute the ocean, but at a deeper depth... meaning that the chance exists that the surface levels will actually decrease, and even of they don't, it will be much more difficult to find out where the radiation is coming from. "
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672665/pg34&mem=TheRedneck
Would explain where much of the contamination is going.
I will be waiting to see what Wood's Hole comes up with, especially in regards to their deep samples of seabed materials.
Hello? Is anyone here? Or
Hello?
Is anyone here?
Or have you been instructed to not respond to messages of this type mentioning ATS?
The comments from ATS aren't
The comments from ATS aren't correct. The corium is still within the containment, at least most of it sitting there as a big mess. The water flowing over it is leaking out, which is what is transporting the radionuclides. ATS is making it seem like China Syndrome is possible, which it is not.
So Daily Yomiuri (Associated
So Daily Yomiuri (Associated Press partner) just printed that stuff about melt-throughs and it's not correct?
Hard for me to grok that, considering Japan's governmental clampdown on info. If it wasn't that bad, I have a hard time believing that paper would just speculatively print that kind of thing.
How far in the sand is your
How far in the sand is your head?
"Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor. "The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey told the paper. "
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/29/workers-japan-nuke-plant-lost-ra...
""Hiroaki Koide, an assistant professor at the Kyoto University says melted fuel from inside the Fukushima nuclear reactor has melted through the containment vessel and is lying on the concrete foundations, sinking into the ground below. Japanese government officials have echoed this statement and have called on TEPCO to build an underground concrete barrier beneath the reactor which would be the only way to stop the molten fuel that is now leaking into the groundwater. "
http://www.myweathertech.com/2011/06/22/fukushima-nuclear-fuel-leaking-i...
The radioactive core in a reactor at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and onto a concrete floor, experts say, raising fears of a major release of radiation at the site.
The warning follows an analysis by a leading US expert of radiation levels at the plant and readings from reactor two at the site made public by the Japanese authorities and Tepco, the utility that operates it...
At least part of the molten core, which includes melted fuel rods and zirconium alloy cladding, seemed to have sunk through the steel "lower head" of the pressure vessel around reactor two and onto the concrete floor of a drywell beneath, Lahey said.
"The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey said. "I hope I am wrong, but that is certainly what the evidence is pointing towards."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear...
Nuclear fuel in three reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant has possibly melted through pressure vessels and accumulated at the bottom of outer containment vessels, according to a government report obtained Tuesday by The Yomiuri Shimbun.
A "melt-through"--when melted nuclear fuel leaks from the bottom of damaged reactor pressure vessels into containment vessels--is far worse than a core meltdown and is the worst possibility in a nuclear accident.
The possibility of the situation at the plant's Nos. 1 to 3 reactors was raised in a report that is to be submitted to the Internat
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110607005367.htm
Need I keep going?
Follow the conversation regardig the nuclear crisis here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672665/pglastpost
Or here for a broader range of topics concerning Japan:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/173/pg1/srtpages
Grab your ears, pull down as hard as you can and when you hear the pop you'll be good.
But isn't the drywell part
But isn't the drywell part of the containment? I know the fuel shouldn't be there, but as long as it stays there is inside the containment.
Drywall will soon collapse
The square box drywall, which now houses the corium, is unfortunately full of water. The drywall does not have sufficient mechanical design strength to withstand earthquake tremors.
The HOT water will slosh and destroy the last remaining barrier in the highly probable event of an earthquake.
Plus, the drywall structures are not remotely intact, having already suffered damage from earthquake, tsunami, hydrogen explosions and reactor meltdown conditions.
What drywall structures, presently remain of Reactor-1, Reactor-2 and Reactor-3; are virtually certain to dramatically fail.
Concrete is porous for one.
Concrete is porous for one.
Other details:
"According to a third aspect of the method of the present invention, the contaminated surface layer may be caused to be detached from the body by heating with a laser heat source to produce a heat affected zone (HAZ) in the body below the surface thereof, at least a part of the HAZ having been subjected to a temperature range of between about 550° C. and about 900° C.
Breakdown of the hydrated chemical bond in ordinary Portland cement (OPC) based concrete begins to occur at about 550° C. and the compressive strength of OPC concrete is weakest at about 800° C. to 900° C. Melting of a layer of surface material by a laser will produce a HAZ below the surface during heating and during subsequent cooling down of the melted surface layer. The melting point of concrete lies in the range from about 1600° to about 1750° C., and therefore, the HAZ will have a region which has been heated within the range from about 550° C. to about 900° C."
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5538764.html
Decomposition of concrete and volatilization of the alkali metal compounds consumes substantial amount of heat.[2] The fast erosion phase of the concrete basemat lasts for about an hour and progresses into about one meter depth, then slows to several centimeters per hour, and stops completely when the melt cools below the decomposition temperature of concrete (about 1100 °C). Complete melt-through can occur in several days even through several meters of concrete; the corium then penetrates several meters into the underlying soil, spreads around, cools and solidifies"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)
Too easy
"...and stops completely
"...and stops completely when the melt cools below the decomposition temperature of concrete (about 1100 °C)."
Yeah, pretty easy.
"... the corium then
"... the corium then penetrates several meters into the underlying soil, spreads around, cools and solidifies""
sure is ain't it?
" In this case, the corium layer thickness is of sufficient depth that high
corium temperatures can be sustained from internal heat generation (plus
exothermic oxidation) causing the concrete to decompose and melt, releasing
large quantities of steam and C02. The presence of water in the cavity may
delay this process if there is a significant quenching of the corium.
However, the water will simply boil off in time unless a reflux cycle is
established in the containment."
Sounds like what Tepco has been doing with their "feed & bleed" technique since the beginning
...
"Stage 3 - Long-term Erosion Stage
Oxidation of metallic species will eventually become complete, and internal heat generation will take place by decay heating only. The fully
oxide melt has been considerably diluted by concrete decomposition products
by this time. The corium temperature is much lower, but the corium solidus
has been reduced by addition of the concrete decomposition products. The
concrete erosion continues at a reduced rate, and the slower gas release
produces a bubbly flow regime. The aerosol and fission-product release is
small, but continues for a long period of time."
I can see that that the decomposed remains of the concrete would slow the process down though the amount slowed would depend on the original corium mass, would it not?
"Stage 4 - Solidification Stage
The temperature of the melt, eventually reduces to the corfum solidus
and thick crust zones are formed. Downward penetration occurs at an
exceedingly slow rate. Aerosol generation becomes negligible."
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?query_id=1&page=0&osti_id=...
The crust would act as an insulator, providing thermal blanketing and keeping decay heat within the mass rather than allowing it to transfer to the water, leading to possible, occasional recriticality producing yet more heat/radiation until it cools then begins the cycle again.
There has been a fair amount of the previously linked document redacted, so this may have been covered.
"The thermal hydraulics of corium-concrete interactions (CCI, or also MCCI, "molten core-concrete interactions") is sufficiently understood.[8] However the dynamics of the movement of corium in and outside of the reactor vessel is highly complex, and the number of possible scenarios is wide; slow drip of melt into an underlying water pool can result in complete quenching, while a fast contact of large mass of corium with water may result in destructive steam explosion. Corium may be completely retained by the reactor vessel, or the reactor floor or some of the instrument penetration holes can be melted through.[9]
The thermal load by corium on the floor below the reactor vessel can be assessed by a grid of fiber optic sensors embedded in the concrete. Pure silica fibers are needed as they are more resistant to high radiation levels"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)#Degradation_of_the_lava
I doubt that the Fukushima Daiichi plant has fiber optic sensors embedded within it's concrete basemat, so accurate reading would be difficult to obtain. Hell, they can't even got into the reactor buildings for very long due to the high levels of radiation in them.
Elsewhere:
"Throughout the months of lies and misinformation, one story has stuck: “The earthquake knocked out the plant’s electric power, halting cooling to its reactors,” as the government spokesman Yukio Edano said at a March 15 press conference in Tokyo. The story, which has been repeated again and again, boils down to this: “after the earthquake, the tsunami – a unique, unforeseeable [the Japanese word is soteigai] event - then washed out the plant’s back-up generators, shutting down all cooling and starting the chain of events that would cause the world’s first triple meltdown to occur.”"
And
"The authors have spoken to several workers at the plant who recite the same story: Serious damage to piping and at least one of the reactors before the tsunami hit. All have requested anonymity because they are still working at the plant or are connected with TEPCO. One worker, a 27-year-old maintenance engineer who was at the Fukushima complex on March 11, recalls hissing and leaking pipes. “I personally saw pipes that came apart and I assume that there were many more that had been broken throughout the plant. There’s no doubt that the earthquake did a lot of damage inside the plant," he said. "There were definitely leaking pipes, but we don’t know which pipes – that has to be investigated. I also saw that part of the wall of the turbine building for Unit 1 had come away. That crack might have affected the reactor.”"
And
"In September of 2002, TEPCO admitted to covering up data concerning cracks in critical circulation pipes in addition to previously revealed falsifications. In their analysis of the cover-up, The Citizen’s Nuclear Information Center writes: “The records that were covered up had to do with cracks in parts of the reactor known as recirculation pipes. These pipes are there to siphon off heat from the reactor. If these pipes were to fracture, it would result in a serious accident in which coolant leaks out. From the perspective of safety, these are highly important pieces of equipment. Cracks were found in the Fukushima Daiichi Power Plant, reactor one, reactor two, reactor three, reactor four, reactor five.” The cracks in the pipes were not due to earthquake damage; they came from the simple wear and tear of long-term usage."
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/meltdown-what-really-happe...
Does an of this sound like a situation that is under control?
Woods Hole Oceanographic
Woods Hole Oceanographic expedition was a wet limp piece of lettuce.
After all that contamination and radioactive waste TEPCO released into the oceans, they did not 'find' any increased radioactivity in the ocean off Fukushima. I wonder about that.
Any readings or their reports are not going to see the light of day (released to scientific journals) until at least winter 2011 - by which time any information discovered will be too old to help save the lives of anyone. It makes you wonder if there is a Big Plan to keep the people un-informed.
Knowing how this information could save lives, you would have thought that the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, who organised this 'fact-finding cruise', would have acknowledged their responsibilities and released some useful data in a timely way which would actually help stop the death and disease which IS going to come from this disaster.
Read the Daily Updates from the 3-17th June Cruise(now finished) here and weep for those who may have been able to be saved.
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=67796
Saying that radiation levels are low cannot be true.
Saying that radiation levels are low cannot be true.
This organisation took radiation readings throughout the area and have published their reports.
They are the ones who reported that children were found to have radiation inside them from what they had been eating and drinking.
The reports and data may be inspected at this site. Please dont continue to thisnk everything is now OK. It isn't and people who tell you so are lying for some reason.
http://www.acro.eu.org/OCJ_en.html
Are you comparing the
Are you comparing the readings taken within a 40 miles radius from the plant in Fukushima Prefecture to readings taken in the ocean? How dense can you be?
I don't know about the other
I don't know about the other person, but I am occasionally dense and occasionally less so.
"The massive Tohoku earthquake and tsunami of March 11, 2011, caused extensive damage in northeastern Japan, including damage to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power installation, which resulted in the release of radiation. Some have called this incident the biggest manmade release ever of radioactive material into the oceans. Concerns have arisen about the potential effects of this released radiation on the U.S. marine environment and resources."
"Some have called..."
I'd like to see an example of a greater radioactive release into the ocean in human history, please cite me an example.
"EPA rainfall monitors in California, Idaho, and Minnesota have detected trace amounts of radioactive iodine, cesium, and tellurium consistent with the Japanese nuclear incident, with current concentrations below any level of concern. It is uncertain how precipitation of radioactive elements from the atmosphere may affect radiation levels in the marine environment"
Take careful note of how the paragraph is closed:"It is uncertain..."
Always that caveat.
"
Scientists have stated that radiation in the ocean will very quickly become diluted and should not be a problem beyond the coast of Japan. The same is true of radiation carried by winds. Barring a major unanticipated release, radioactive contaminants from Fukushima Daiichi should become sufficiently dispersed over time that they will not prove to be a serious health threat elsewhere, unless they bioaccumulate in migratory fish or find their way directly to another part of the world through food or other commercial products."
Again, watch how the paragraph closes:"...unless they bioaccumulate..."
"
Currently, it appears that radioactive contamination of seafood from the recent nuclear disaster in Japan is not a food safety problem for consumers in the United States. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the damage to infrastructure in Japan has limited food production and associated exports from areas near the Fukushima nuclear facility. Food products from the areas near the Fukushima nuclear facility, including seafood, are also to be tested by FDA before they can enter the U.S. food supply"
That's good to know.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41751.pdf
The above linked document is dated 04/15/2011
Elsewhere:
"Even with dangerous levels of radiation reported recently just off the coast from the Fukushima reactor complex, the ocean is so huge and Alaska fisheries so far away that there is no realistic threat, said FDA spokeswoman Siobhan DeLancey. The Food and Drug Administration has oversight of the nation's food supplies.
The state's food safety program manager, Ron Klein of the Department of Environmental Conservation, said the FDA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have demonstrated that Alaskans have no cause for worry.
"Based on the work they're doing, no sampling or monitoring of our fish is necessary," he said."
http://www.adn.com/2011/04/16/1813982/fda-claims-no-need-to-test-pacific...
Wait, what?
more:
"As for U.S. fish, she said, "We have not been doing any testing. We've been working with NOAA to keep an eye on U.S. waters, to see if there is any cause for alarm, and we do have the capability to begin testing if that does occur."
Asked to explain what kind of monitoring was taking place in the ocean, DeLancey said, "You would have to talk directly to NOAA ... I don't really want to speak for another agency."
But NOAA fisheries spokeswoman Kate Naughton declined to answer questions and referred a reporter back to DeLancey and the EPA.
DeLancey said that so far, there's no reason for concern about Fukushima. The radioactive materials in the water near Fukushima quickly become diluted in the massive volume of the Pacific, she said. Additionally, radioactive fallout that lands on the surface tends to stay there, giving the most unstable ones isotopes like iodine time to decay before reaching fish, she said.
Some imported fish are tested, she said, but those also appear safe."
Define "some imported fish"
Are they testing or are they not testing?
And why is NOAA stonewalling?
"I'd like to see an example
"I'd like to see an example of a greater radioactive release into the ocean in human history, please cite me an example. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield#Radiological_releases
From the provided
From the provided link:
"Technetium-99 is a radioactive element which is produced by nuclear fuel reprocessing, and also as a by-product of medical facilities (for example Ireland is responsible for the discharge of approximately 6.78 gigabecquerels of technetium-99 each year despite not having a nuclear industry)"
From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_effects_from_Fukushima_Daiichi_nu...
"On 21 April, TEPCO estimated that 520 tons radioactive water leaked into the sea before leaks in a pit in unit 2 were plugged, releasing 4,700 TBq of total water release (calculated by simple sum, which is inconsistent with the IAEA methodology for mixed nuclide releases[52]) (20,000 times facility's annual limit).[52][59] TEPCO's detailed estimates were 2,800 TBq of I-131, 940 TBq of Cs-134, 940 TBq of Cs-137.[52]On 21 April, TEPCO estimated that 520 tons radioactive water leaked into the sea before leaks in a pit in unit 2 were plugged, releasing 4,700 TBq of total water release (calculated by simple sum, which is inconsistent with the IAEA methodology for mixed nuclide releases[52]) (20,000 times facility's annual limit).[52][59] TEPCO's detailed estimates were 2,800 TBq of I-131, 940 TBq of Cs-134, 940 TBq of Cs-137.[52]"
Granny smiths to red delicious, but unless I am mistaken (which does happen more often than I like) pretty sure 6.78 GBq is a good deal less than the lowest amount quoted of 940 TBq.
Tc-99 (actually the medical
Tc-99 (actually the medical use is meta-stable Tc-99m) is NOT created from nuclear fuel reprocessing but from special isotope generators made from Mo98 impregnated alumina column. The column is placed in a high neutron flux (e.g. within a research nuclear reactor) and Mo98 absorbs neutrons to become Mo99. This column is commonly known as a technitium cow and the Mo99 will decay into Tc99 and Tc99m for a week or so. The Tc99m has a half-life of 6 hours and emits a 140 keV gamma-ray which is quite useful as it is in the diagnostic x-ray range of energies. Tc99m is commonly used as a tracer within SPECT imaging systems.
I really don't understand
I really don't understand what you did there. Why do you quote annual releases of Technetium-99 in IRELAND to estimate sea water releases in Sellafield?
Don't worry, I'll find the proper quote for you:
"Discharges into the sea of radioactive effluents - mainly caesium-137 - from the Magnox reprocessing plant's storage pond amounted to 9,000 TBq during the peak year, 1975[49]."
So, the releases of Cesium-137 during 1975 only (the releases continued at similar levels until the 80s) were already 10 times higher than the releases of Cesium-137 from Fukushima.
Any comments?
Touché That would be an
Touché
That would be an example of me being dense and only skimming the article.
Let's keep an eye out and see how much more is released (I really do hope they get a handle on it sooner) in a year's time shall we?
Look where it is
Look where it is
Actually, if we were looking for the radionuclides...
We would look where the radiation is now going...
During March and April, the Jet Stream was south, over the 'Lower 48'. During summer months, the Jet Stream averages much further north.
;(
Canada is not looking, so it must not be there.
Current Jet Stream Map: http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_norhem_00.gif
The hydrogen explosions have not recently been launching the radionuclides to Flight Level 50. The emissions are mostly heavier than air, so they are moving slower and lower. The nuclear fallout is mostly dusting Japan and/or the North Pacific Ocean, also mostly near Japan.
The 'hot' water is pouring into the local groundwater table and thence into the Pacific. Measure Japanese water.
Pacific plankton and other marine life are uptaking the radionuclides by mouth, gill and other biologic pathways. Measure the Pacific Ocean sediments, seaweed and seafood.
No major releases have occurred since March
Here is a video from June 28 m 2011 (Tonight)
Here is a video from June 28, 2011 (Tonight)
At 4:15 you can clearly see the releases of radioactive emissions which are no longer taking place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzMO_cnH9Y&feature=player_embedded#at=329
If you look closely at the
If you look closely at the Tepco video time clock in the upper right hand corner, time is literally just flying by. It appears that someone, somehow has greatly speeded up the Tepco video, making the emissions look far worse I suspect than the emissions would appear at real time.
Right speeding up the video
Right speeding up the video makes all that steam irrelevant. Please, that is the lamest excuse for radioactive steam/smoke I have ever seen.
I'm sure the steam in this picture is just sped up too. Oh wait this is a photograph. Lemme guess photoshopped?
Link to Japan News Today
Thanks Mark for your
Thanks Mark for your explanation.
This map was posted on the
This map was posted on the internet within the first few days of the Fukushima incidents. (Japan Fallout Forecast Map). It is a hoax.
Here are numerous websites talking about it back in early March.
http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/japanese-nuclear-fallou...
http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp
http://ny-popculture-politics.blogspot.com/2011/03/japan-nuclear-fallout...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread673801/pg1
Good question, bump
Good question, bump
Hope map is wrong
.
Here is a nasty looking radiation map. I sincerely HOPE that it is incorrect. Of course, there are no other values being posted, by the governments of Japan, USA or the international agencies.
http://mychinaviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/d1975_fukushima-nucle...
http://mychinaviews.com/2011/06/china-dispatches-team-to-monitor-nuclear...
XIAMEN, June 16 (Xinhua) — China’s State Oceanic Administration dispatched a marine monitoring team Thursday from Xiamen City, in China’s southeast Fujian Province, to monitor radiation in the west Pacific.
The aim of the mission is to get a better understanding of how nuclear radiation affects the marine environment.
Wang Fei, deputy chief of the State Oceanic Administration, said the mission will help China establish a radioactive alert system in the west Pacific.
The monitoring team consists of 40 people and will sail about 5,000 nautical miles in 30 days, according to the plan.
--------------------------------------------------
That SCARY map is reminicient of an old cold war movie.
On The Beach, directed by Stanley Kramer, (1959) featured: Gregory Peck (Captain Dwight Lionel Towers - USS Sawfish), Ava Gardner (Alcoholic Moira Davidson), Fred Astaire (scientist Julian Osborne) and Anthony Perkins (Royal Australian Navy lieutenant Peter Holmes). After a nuclear war, the last US nuclear submarine searches unsuccessfully for signs of life in the Northern Hemisphere. The Australian government arranges for its citizens to receive suicide pills and injections, so that they may choose to avoid prolonged suffering from the coming radiation sickness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upg2eqNbF3w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf-g9aSdfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upg2eqNbF3w&feature=related
Australian remake Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv_OJBBaF48&NR=1
Wait, that map is for what
Wait, that map is for what moment in time? 750 rads per person or distributed around the whole yellow area? Are we all dead already?
That map is old - dating
That map is old - dating back to the first days of the crisis - and I believe its Rad projections presuppose the absolute worst-case scenario, that is to say, complete full-on meltdowns of all reactors on site plus the spent fuel, and all at the same time. Could be mistaken about that, though.
Plume travel and dispersion relative to initial release levels look pretty solid. Five to eight days is about right depending on local atmospheric conditions. Depending on the jet stream at any particular time, the fallout could travel further north or a little more south, but it all ends up circling the hemisphere a good half a dozen times, anyway, and except for places where the rain falls particularly early, frequently or heavy, it all ends up pretty much the same in the end.
I don't think those Rad levels are relevant to what we've seen so far in the atmospheric. The ocean may be another kettle of radioactive fish entirely though.
The LACK of governmental
The LACK of governmental disclosure is disconcerting, to say the least. So for example, that is a recent article, whatever the age of the SCARY map.
The figures on the SCARY map might correspond to one or more of the spent fuel pools having an incident. One example would be if the Reactor-4 building collapsed; spilling the fuel and spent fuel on the Fukushima shoreline.
I am not suggesting that such a Spent Fuel incident has occured. Only that in the absence of data disclosures, it is somewhat natural to speculate about ... WHY.
If that is an old map, does it correspond in time to the 'All Clear' signal from Obama? That would have been about the time he evacuated HIS family to South America.
His family is way down in
His family is way down in Botswana now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008507/Michelle-Obama-tucks-fat...
Pre-planned Trip
I've commented on this before. I'm not Obama fan by any stretch of the imagination. And I did have my suspicions about the timing of the trip. But, after an easy Google search, I found that the South American trip dates were set and reported well in advance of the Japanese earthquake. And he cut that trip short because of Lybia). Which brought him back to the US just in time for the peak of the plume.
LINK PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
LINK PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
Weak
Obama threw the Mrs and the kids in AF-1 and 'got out of Dodge'
Preplanned trade delegation plans get dropped all the time, when there is some important business or emergency to tend to.
I don't care if Obama 'bugged out' with the family.
The 'All Clear' signal is what rankles me. Lots of US citizens in the Pacific Northwest, and in other 'Black Rain' areas like Boise and Boston, could have substantially cut their health risks, if Obama and Ann Coulter had not lied.
Obama lied and Americans will die, slow lingering cancer deaths because of it.
Uh...make that Libya
Need coffee
If that 11 day old China
If that 11 day old China story map projection is accurate, and you are west of a line stretcing from Saskatchewan to Nebraska to Guaymas ... just order the small coffee.
And you won't need to pay the bills. Game Over!
So, again, in the absence of any significant official information, by the governments of Japan and the USA. I sincerely hope that map is purely theoretical, and out of date.
The folks out to about 60 miles from Fukushima have already gotten the 'bad news' about their massive radiation doses. Who gets the next 'so sorry' message from TEPCO, Hitachi and GE?
China know that anything
China know that anything coming east from Japan will get to China eventually.
What? Do you think China publishes a map with fake bad readings on it so that they hope the people of the USA will commit hari-kari? No-one can escape this disaster, which is why it is so strange that the whole world does not club together and get a committee of the best minds to try to help the situation. Currently, it is Japan on its own (mainly) trying to manage a global disaster.
What has been suggested (which is pure speculation)is that Japan were doing some strange things underneath the Fukushima plant. This is supposedly backed up by some loading and unloading of US navy barges at night in the early days of the crisis. This was before the freshwater for cooling came in on that big barge.
The Woods Hole Oceanographic institute sent scientists out to monitor and take readings off Fukushima at the start of June (3-17th). They will not be publishing their reports or any preliminary data until sometime 'this winter'. That does not sound like a global disaster where 3 reactor cores have melted into the bedrock beneath the reactor buildings and millions of gallons of highly radioactive water has been and is continuing to be dumped into the sea. No panic, no rush. Everything is fine.
Now, tell me there is nothing funny going on.
Just watch the US reactors as the floods get to them in Nebraska. Wake up people.
Oh SOMETHING funny is going
Oh SOMETHING funny is going on!
I can no longer count on one hand the number of US nuclear facilities currently in the news for presently suffering some kind of potentially dangerous calamity.
Meanwhile the media has soaked us with one Casey Anthony after another Anthony Weiner. Drowned us in their filth, like we are pigs who love it, it's disgusting. Who's next, Bambi Casey, the porn star/extreme sports enthusiast caught giving out LSD in a daycare?
SOMETHING is going on, yes, and it has nothing to do with childish puns or sexy MILFs who kill their kids without remorse.
WHAT is actually going on though? What is causing all these disasters, and the patently bizarre political response to them? I really do not understand, but the way they are responding (censorship is pretty much the only activity I've seen them do with any enthusiasm) is what makes me so deeply worried, much more than the disasters themselves.
>radiation is is being
>radiation is is being emitted both into the air and into the sea in vast quantities.
What's your source for that? Air radiation levels seem to be going down all over Japan including the plant since the end of March. Water contamination also seems to be going down since they stopped the leak near the water intake of Reactor number 2.
Let us not get distracted
Let us not get distracted from the original question.
[quote]We also know that the winds from Japan mostly blow towards USA, so why isn't
it being detected by your air samplers?[/quote]
The radiation is not reduced just because a leak has been plugged. The radiation has to go somewhere as the 3 cores are exposed and are sitting in a heap at the bottom of the reactor as has been admitted by TEPCO.
Please answer the question.
>Please answer the
>Please answer the question
I have no special info. They managed to avoid further explosions, decay heat is a fraction of what it was 3 months ago and they managed to keep a stable amount of water going through the structures previously known as cores and flooding the buildings. That creates a whole lot of problems at the plant but apparently no air releases comparable to the ones from the first week or two.
How do you know your readings are correct?
How do you know your meter readings are correct?
JAIF Report 123 25th June says that most of the water has evaporated into the air from No 2 reactor
JAIF report 124 26th June Nitrogen into No 2. to lower the risk of Hydrogen explosion
You say
"...They managed to avoid further explosions, decay heat is a fraction of what it was 3 months ago and they managed to keep a stable amount of water going through the structures previously known as cores and flooding the buildings...."
How do you know decay heat is a fraction of what it was 3 months ago? Where is YOUR source?
With all 3 cores melted and spent fuel pools cracked, leaking, and far too alkali how can the decay heat be less than it was 3 months ago?
Tepco have already said (see JAIF report 123) that the water in No 2 has evaporated and so there is nothing to provide cooling for the reactor.
The melted cores are like uncontrolled nuclear reactions and there are thousands of spent and melted fuel rods in the pools as well as the fuel rods sent in all directions from the initial explosions. The molten cores are in a cycle of criticality and are producing steam and flashes as can be seen on the video cameras on both Youtube and Tepco webcam sites.
If there is no water to cool the anything in reactor 2 , where is the radioactivity going then? It has to be released into the air.
Tepco are also going ahead with their plans to cover building No 1.
Why would they do that if there were no significant amounts of radiation escaping via the air?
>How do you know decay heat
>How do you know decay heat is a fraction of what it was 3 months ago?
Because that is how decay heat works.
>With all 3 cores melted and spent fuel pools cracked, leaking, and far too alkali how can the decay heat be less than it was 3 months ago?
The alkali thing is quite new. I read about it maybe a couple of days ago, being a problem in pool number 3 because of the debris inside the pool.
>The melted cores are like uncontrolled nuclear reactions and there are thousands of spent and melted fuel rods in the pools as well as the fuel rods sent in all directions from the initial explosions. The molten cores are in a cycle of criticality and are producing steam and flashes as can be seen on the video cameras on both Youtube and Tepco webcam sites.
If that were the case the levels of radiation would be unbearable for the workers at Fukushima, increasing all over Japan depending on the wind and eventually detectable both in the US and Europe. All the institutions involved in radiation monitoring in the northern hemisphere, including anti-nuclear groups, point to major releases in the first one or two weeks, an important decrease after that and nothing or not detectable since mid-april. It's been more than two months since then, is it possible that some of your assumptions are incorrect?
By the way, I have no knowledge of nuclear engineering. If you want answers from an expert, the guys at BRAWM don't answer to anything that is not directly related to their research, which is air and food monitoring in their area.
Yes, I understand this is a
Yes, I understand this is a food and air monitoring forum.
The point is that TEPCO and the Japanese government has been 'very economical with the truth' since the start of this. They have released some more important information as time has gone on (such as the core melt downs etc) but in the beginning they did not admit to this which was as a result of the loss of cooling for so long after the tsunami and cracked vessels due to earthquake.
Your assumptions that these organisations are telling the truth are not correct as I have just pointed out. There are many econimic, political, and national security reasons why the media has to be 'managed closely' in a stuation such as this or the BP oil spill.
The evidence from the thread I mentioned above is such, that it is likely there is a huge global nuclear industry effort to manage the output of all this data. Most countries have nuclear power and depend on governmental funding and populations who accept the risks.
If this is managed badly, populations will not accept the risks - as in Germany and funding will dry up.
Are you absolutely sure your meters are reading the correct values because they all seem rather low for a global disaster on this scale?
>Are you absolutely sure
>Are you absolutely sure your meters are reading the correct values because they all seem rather low for a global disaster on this scale?
I don't know. If all the local governments in Japan, all the universities that are publishing data, the independent research centers, NPOs working in Fukushima prefecture, anti-nuclear groups like CRIIRAD, GREENPEACE, CNIC and the many concerned individuals taking readings all over Japan are part of the conspiracy, I think it's actually possible that there is an orchestrated global operation to cook the books of environmental radiation levels.
It does sound a bit forced, though. It's possible that you are taking for granted that your theory is correct even if doesn't fit the data.
Again, I'm no expert.
I explained why i thought theses organisation lie
I explained why these organisation lie. There are millions and billions of dollars at stake, and many different governments and countries. Yes, it is easy to make me out to be a crackpot conspiracy nut.
Now, how about examining the data and taking your head out of the sand.
You could also go to ATS forum and read the information collected there from all different places. Wow, life is so cosy lapping up what the media tells you.
Whose data are we talking about here anyway? Greenpeace? Their data does not support your argument. I agree, there are people on the forum too who live in these places, why would they want to give a bad impression? All they want is to get back to their homes and to be able to eat food safely again.
So, show me some links to data from anti-nuclear and non-governmental monitoring stations and then you have a basis for an argument that this is pure conspiracy theory.
OK. Let's see what I
OK. Let's see what I have:
Check the Greenpeace reports. Do you see any report on increasing levels of air radiation since March? About their sea water monitoring, do you see anything worse than the levels of contamination reported by Tepco themselves at the beginning of April, when they reported levels of Iodine of several million becquerel per liter?
CRIIRAD. This graph released in April: http://balisescriirad.free.fr/g_valence_25_avril_29.pdf This report released this month: http://balisescriirad.free.fr/Resultats_%20Japon/Resultats_analyses_22_0... Check the dates and consider the 4-5 days delay, do you see anything comparable to the peaks detected in late March, beginning of April?
CNIC. Daily monitoring in Shinjuku (Tokyo): http://www.cnic.jp/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1022 First column, inside their offices. Second column, outside the building. Third column, plants on a park near the building. Fourth column, outside, ground level. Do you see the peak on March 15, a second peak around March 22 and decreasing levels since then?
Individual geiger counters. Hino, west Tokyo. http://park30.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html His archive with charts summarizing the situation since March: http://park30.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_archives.html Do you see the peak on March 15, a second peak around March 22 and decreasing levels since then? The drumsoft network: http://drumsoft.com/gm/ choose one, access the archives. Do you see any increase since March?
Finally, compare all that with these charts, based on the official readings of different local governments and the readings at the plant from Tepco: http://fleep.com/earthquake/ It ends in mid-April, but I think the pattern is quite clear and consistent with the rest of the readings. For official readings of fallout, check this for Shinjuku (Tokyo): http://monitoring.tokyo-eiken.go.jp/monitoring/f-past_data.html You can compare the contamination detected in March with what they are detecting now.
Let me know what you think.
fallout
It IS there. It is also at a seeming ebb at the moment. Emissions from Fukushima are not consistent in any regard save a overall decrease since the MOX spent fuel pool blew up spiking emissions. It IS there. It is also in a fog of radiation which makes our modern soup of radiation just a bit thicker. Finding and fingerprinting the isotopes from Fukushima at the current lower levels is difficult. The increasing and variable fog of background radiation makes the testing, which can take weeks for a single sample, next to or impossible. Tons of rain and bioaccumulator testing is what should happen now. Let us hope. And yes, the government governs the people, but SERVES ABSOLUTELY the entities that pay for and create the government via extravagant political campaigns, think tanks, etc. Note also that Fukushima is not of domestic origin (read not really the EPAs bees wax) and therefore a State Department and Pentagon concern. Have fun with that bunch.
I assume radiation is in the
I assume radiation is in the water flooding Fukushima´s facilities.