It is all so pathetic
It is all so pathetic that here we all are, seeking answers to Fukushima radiation fallout and anticipated effects from internet forums. Truth seekers spread thin on blogs and forums trying to make sense and conclusions from data and info fed via a slow trickle.
It is equally pathetic that UC Berkeley's BRAWN team is about the only source of test data of any significance. It is even more pathetic that the majority of folks are in the dark about the biggest nuclear disaster in history.
Where is the media? Japan admits withholding data. How has this become acceptable?
Where are all the universities and research groups and agencies? This is an enormous opportunity to capture a full picture of the fallout, correlate results in various mediums, over time, and across the globe.
The data would lead to excellent epidemiological study of the effects of radiation. One could ask why isn't the nuclear industry doing such an endevour. I mean, if it's as safe as nuclear proponents try to claim, wouldn't a large-scale, real-world study of Fukushima be the ideal method to prove their point?
Something is really wrong.
Lying
... Compelled by circumstance to declare ...
Is another way of saying ...
They LIED
Give me a break. The
Give me a break. The intelligent truth seekers are "paranoid" because we actually are paying attention to what is happening as opposed to the rest of the country oblivious to everything except their Facebook page?
I wish GE employees would stop posting on here...
Also, it isn't in the past. In case you weren't aware, this crisis isn't any more stable today than it was when it began.
Who said paranoid? Fight or
Who said paranoid? Fight or flight response has been confirmed both through neuroscience, cognitive behavior, and general medicine: it is a physiological response, the release of the different chemicals can be predicted and confirmed. The fight or flight response acts in specific ways that have been studied, can be predicted. The fight or flight response also gets the credit for hundreds of thousands of years of survival(or 5,000 depending on your belief system).
Notice that nowhere in these posts do I say that anyone is wrong to identify the situation as dangerous and a threat--the point is that because it is dangerous and a threat it is very easy to move from finding actionable solutions to just jumping through hoops our subconscious sets for us. Once you are responding to your gut feel and not demanding that all information is verified, checking and rechecking information, it is more likely that you are going to end up waaaay off in the weeds really far removed from where you need to be to choose the best possible action to respond to the risk.
Going on for months...
Well, clearly you are correct that our bodies were not designed to stay in this state of high alert for months. Clearly, you are also correct when you state that this is not healthy.
However, I take issue with your conclusion that we should "refocus," as it were, based upon your observation that most of the country is not particularly concerned.
In fact, I would direct you to consider what happened in Nazi Germany where many of the citizens were not overly concerned, didn't believe the signs, and didn't get out in time! So, in fact, if anything, this massive non-concern really elucidates the normalcy bias, NOT the appropriate level of inquiry and self-preservation of self and loved ones.
We have all been lied to, we know that now. And, this is not something that we can and should drop for now, only to review from a dispassionate historical perspective. This situation is ongoing and, hence, it is far from clear that the worst is behind us. In fact, proof or confirmation of that, is one of the reasons we are here on this site.
So, many of us are here seeking information about safely securing the most basic necessities of life--air, food and water. Under the circumstances-the ONGOING circumstances-an ongoing inquiry seems quite in order, and far from pathological. In fact, it is usually categorized as self-preservation which seems to be of a higher, and more immediate order, than "anxiety control." As an analogy, wars oftentimes go on for years, and no one would argue that one should let down one's guard after an arbitrary period just because it would be more "calming." Rather, I believe that a person who did such a thing, while still in the line of fire, would, in fact, be considered delusional.
So, while I agree with you that it would be nice if we were not so anxious (I mean, who could dispute that?), I think that you have your psychological timeline reversed. FIRST we need to know the truth and how it relates to any dangers that we may be faced with, and can possibly mitigate while this debacle is ongoing. THEN, after we have been able to do that, we will have the luxury of looking back at this with some historical perspective and can deal with any anxious aftermath.
Thank you for highlighting
Thank you for highlighting the normalcy bias! It is our worst enemy. Once we acknowledge it, we are capable of making objective decisions for ourselves and loved ones. Trust your instincts.
Hear - Hear
Bravo,
Very well said,
'Lied to' implies that they
'Lied to' implies that they had all of the information of what was going on, just how intense, and all of the risks, and everyone got into a room and decided that they would create a false impression to preserve their bottom line. There had just been a 9.0 earthquake followed by a tsunami, the power shut down, there were constant aftershocks everyone was trying to work out if their family were alive or dead. There is no giant dashboard that says what has happened to the world after a major disaster. For the people responding it feels like the outside world is a giant blackhole, you have to build a picture of what has happened by pulling data from literally chaose--add to that the fact that rational thought has been shoved to the back of the line in mental processing--ugh.
People who have spent their entire lives absolutely sure that every risk they have adopted was adopted for a good reason: absolutely sure that their professional assessment that the safety regime they've been defending for so long is going to work--it takes a lot to move away from that, their first instinct is to get mad at whoever implies they are wrong.
I agree that it is just as easy to not react when you should--but the fact is, it is not possible to effectively determine what to do if you are in the very center of a fear response. Our prefrontal cortex is told to shut up and let the 'fight or flight' response do it's job. Well, that response was a lot more useful 10,000 years ago than today.
Global hawk took radiation
Global hawk took radiation reading early in march the powers that be knew sir sorry but it's the damn truth.
"No one from Northrop Grumman or the U.S. Air Force could talk about the drone efforts on request of Japanese officials."
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Global-Hawk-Flying-Over-Japan-1180...
This is what I mean about
This is what I mean about taking 'negative' and treating it as positive. They took the data and did not release it. That means that we don't have that data. It does not mean that other data is correct or incorrect. It does not mean that there was a deeper agenda or ill intentioned plan behind not releasing it.
Didn't DOE release some tables based on the drone data? I know they released really great pictures. If I have time I will see if I can remember where I saw it.
Anyway, if we can access that data, we can use it. If we can't, it isn't very useful.
Have you considered putting in a FOIA request for the data?
R u kidding yourself / populous was and is in dark
Since then, the data on radiation releases suggest a range of outcomes, going all the way up to "dire," the officials said. They spoke with NBC on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the findings publicly.
NBC's sources said the Japan nuclear site and its surroundings are being monitored by a variety of U.S. aircraft, including:
U-2 spy planes. The U-2s, flying out of Okinawa, have "radiation suites" that can take readings at various altitudes.
Global Hawk drone.The Global Hawk remote-controlled plane, now on its second run, has multispectral imaging capabilities, including thermal infrared and synthetic aperture radar. Kyodo News Service quoted Japanese government sources as saying that the Global Hawk was taking images of the inside of the reactor buildings.
WC-135 Constant Phoenix aircraft. One radiation-sniffing WC-135, basically a converted Boeing 707 jet, is on its way from Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska to the area around Japan, where it will take atmospheric readings.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/17/6290369-us-military-dete...
FOI - YES
What is the status of these FOIA requests?
Transparency still ‘pending’ for: NRC, DOE, GE, Hitachi, TEPCO & Japan
http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1107/ML11076A003.pdf
http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1107/ML11076A004.pdf
http://pbadupws.nrc.gov/docs/ML1107/ML11076A005.pdf
FOIA REQUEST March 16, 2011
Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. § 552, I request access to and copies of all communications between the NRC and government counterparts in Japan pertaining to the Japanese nuclear incidents caused by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. This includes problems at the following three facilities: Fukushima Dai-ichi, Fukushima Daini, and Onagawa.
From: Dina Cappiello The Associated Press 11 00 13th Street NW
Washington, DC 20005 202-641-9446
To: Donna L. Sealing FOIA Privacy Officer
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Mailstop: T-5 F09
Washington, DC 20555-0001
TEPCO LIED
.
In the English language, TEPCO LIED!
The Japanese have a great deal of subtlety and shades of meaning.
But for our purposes ...
TEPCO LIED!
Little hints
.
Still working on that cover story for GE, TEPCO, Japan & Obama…
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-2...
A leak in a spent fuel pool at the Fukushima nuclear plant would be an unprecedented problem with no clear remedy, experts say.
By Ralph Vartabedian, Barbara Demick and Laura King, Los Angeles Times - March 18, 2011, 1:50 a.m.
Reporting from Los Angeles, Kesennuma and Tokyo— U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping.
That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack.
Nuclear plant experts interviewed by The Times on Thursday said it was unlikely that the quake could have caused a significant amount of water in the 45-foot-deep pool to slosh out and drain away, exposing the 15-foot rods. They also doubted that heat from the fuel rods could boil away that much water in just a few days, especially because steam was not seen coming from the reactor building.
Instead, U.S. officials believe that the pool's wall was cracked either by the intense shaking of the earthquake or by a large piece of equipment falling into it.
Employees of a consortium of General Electric and Hitachi were in the reactor building at the time of the quake, according to company and government sources. The GE employees have returned home, though some Hitachi employees are continuing to offer assistance to Tokyo Electric.
Nuclear experts say they can't be positive that a breach has occurred without looking at the pool, but the area around the pool is so radioactive that a close inspection still isn't possible.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission's chairman, Gregory B. Jaczko, said this week that his agency believed the spent fuel pool was empty, triggering alarms and a rebuttal by Japanese authorities. His spokesman, Scott Burnell, said Jaczko's statements were "based on a variety of sources that represented the best available information."
They's be better pleading the 5th....
Do you think TEPCO lied?
Well,it depends upon where the definition of lies lays...
(Hey, Clinton's on here!)
Bottom line: Yes, they lied!
OK. and? Have you been
OK. and? Have you been depending on Tepco for your data? No, they weren't releasing anything, so from day one you've been looking for independent sources of information, as was smart.
There hasn't been much data released, definitely not as much as needed to be released. Was the information not released because the sources are trying to harm you? Are all of the official sources currently hiding information about 'hot particles' because.......why?
Arne needs to release the source of data he is basing his claims on. In crisis situations it is absolutely essential to 'ground data'. Data is interesting, but not usable until it can be verified. Good data can be verified from multiple sources--it needs to be because it is really easy for there to be an error involved in the first source. We can't verify anything at all about the 'hot particles' issue. There are labs all over the planet monitoring radiation in the air--there should be lots of ways to confirm his claims. Where is it? A lot of people seem to be open to taking 'negatives' as proof. The lack of official confirmation of his data is more evidence that you can't trust the officials. Huh? It is best to assume that you may not be able to trust official information--the solution is to find other sources of data--but be sure that data can be verified from multiple sources. A single source of data, or in this case, a single source with no data has a high risk of being wrong, which means that all assumptions and actions based on that source will turn out to be wrong too.
Shill Alert
Shill Alert
Oh yea, you know it. sigh
Oh yea, you know it.
sigh
The GE drumbeat … ‘fear is crazy’ 'Resistance is futile'
.
Psycho-babble
One prong of the General Electric attack/defense, much like BP following the Macondo oil spill, is to minimize the scope of the environmental Armageddon. Another prong is to minimize their involvement, such as a recent statement, ‘GE built the turbines’. There is the lunatic hormesis notion, advanced by the lovely and erudite constitutional lawyer, Ann Coulter.
My favorite however is the GE inspired psychobabble. Sometimes a ‘friendly GE shrink’ offers on a blog to ‘counsel’ the curious and/or wary. GE has used this ‘crazy’ approach for over a century, beginning with Thomas A. Edison attempting to brand Nicola Tesla, George Westinghouse and AC electricity as nutjobs and killers. TAE, the actual crazed killer, then proceded to electrocute: Topsy the elephant, dogs, cats, monkeys, zebras and convicts.
The apparently criminally insane GE management, attempted this ‘nutjob’ approach on former GE Nuclear Engineering Managers, DALE G. BRIDENBAUGH, RICHARD B. HUBBARD & GREGORY C. MINOR since their circa 1976 testimony, regarding GE Mark 1 containment design defects, before the AEC and congess.
Example: Psychobabble
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/science/03radiation.html?pagewanted=all
“The fear is unwarranted, EXPERTS say.”
“Most people don’t have a good handle on the risks,” Dr. Fred A. Mettler Jr., professor of radiology at the University of New Mexico and the American representative to a United Nations panel on radiation assessment, said in an interview. “They don’t know the magnitude of the sources, so they don’t know how to put the risks in perspective.”
Given what may appear to be chaotic or incomplete information, people may base their perceptions of atomic risk on a volatile mix of sensational reports and instincts.
“Risk resides mostly as a FEELING,” said Paul Slovic, a pioneer of nuclear psychology at the University of Oregon. “It’s a quick gut reaction often triggered by an image,” especially ones in the movies and on television.
Bill Duff perhaps it
Bill Duff perhaps it couldn't hurt to talk to a psychologist. I believe the craziest people are the ones who don't ever wonder if they are crazy. People that believe the rest of society is mad and they are the last sane man standing scare the hell out me. You my friend...scare the hell out of me. Frothing at the mouth and shouting about the hypocrisy of GE and inciting outright madness isn't doing any of us any good. You have found a small group of followers that are desperate for someone to guide them and unfortunately they have been seduced by your LOUD and NUMEROUS ranting posts. You aren't doing any of us any good. You refuse to be challenged...you accuse any that disagrees with you of being a shill. You are the brawm forums ALEX JONES...a pied piper in my opinion. I recall you responded to someones post asking you if you could honestly say you have EVER said one thing and done another...and you had the gall to actually say no!!! People like you are dangerous. You should be banned from the forum for how much you have compromised it's credibility. You are downright rude to the moderators and ANY posters that disagree with you. I know you are going to have a mouthful for this post and I will gladly debate with you....as LONG AS YOU DONT ACCUSE ME OF BEING A SHILL. I'm just a regular guy that finds this whole mess VERY disconcerting and I do agree with a few points you have made but your paranoid accusations and hostility has done a great disservice to everyone that frequents this forum.
Well yea--but based on
Well yea--but based on neuroscience/cognitive behavior studies. I learned everything through disaster response training--responders don't do as good a job if they can't ID and manage their brain's automatic response to stress chemicals.
Rational thought isn't essential to survival, if it was, all creatures alive would have it--since it isn't essential, during a fear response it is pushed out of the way--we are primed to do very specific things pretty many simultaneously:
*search out a source of danger
*find patterns to confirm the assessment (reach out to others to get validation)
*focus on the danger over all else
*determine who you trust or don't trust (me for instance, I must have an ulterior motive for posting other than trying to help)
*be open to do things that usually would feel rash/extreme
In post disaster periods you see reflections of these states again and again--reflected in the 24 hour news coverage, on site: the surge of anger that usually hits around day 3 or 4, the spiked sense of vulnerability followed by domestic and even community violence (attacking people who may or may not be looters).
Being able to seperate our mind's automatic response from a situation can do a lot to improve the quality of responce to a situation. Mistakes can be made both ways--it is also very easy and possible to under react to danger--we over trust sources when we decide they are on our side. Finding that happy medium is the key.
Agree on finding a happy
Agree on finding a happy medium and that involves being able to face the reality without letting the fear response get control. At certain times, like after a piece of particularly bad news, it will surge - it's only natural - but we can push it back and stay calm and clear-eyed overall. This is the saddest thing to ever happen in my life yet it you were to average my mood over a given day, it would still be better than neutral. We can't wallow, I won't wallow.
It's mental discipline, being an adult emotionally. Hiding one's head in the sand would be the opposite. I see it all around me and I try to see it with compassionate eyes (and usually succeed), but in the people around me in my day-to-day life I do see many 'emotional babies' in adult bodies.
It's only been in the last
It's only been in the last 100 years that we humans have started figuring out how our brains work, and only in the last 30 years that we are finally getting somewhere figuring out the actual mechanism and hierarchies in our minds. It's only been in the last year or so that they were able to use nueroimaging to see confirm that we make decisions before we are aware that we've made a decision by our subconscious, that our 'thinking brain' isn't the boss of the rest of our brain. It actually is barely even listened to by the subconscious--there are millions of pathways from the subconscious to the prefrontal cortex, but very few back.
This means that it isn't taught in schools, so most people aren't even aware that it is an issue. Awareness can help build checks, and structures to manage it and reduce the influence, but can do nothing to make us immune. Our brains are wired the way our brians our wired.
KNOW WHEN TO RUN!
.
The Gambler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo
Songwriter: SCHLITZ, DON, Singer KENNY ROGERS
You've got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away And know when to run
You never count your money When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin' When the dealin's done
On a warm summer's eve On a train bound for nowhere
I met up with the gambler We were both too tired to sleep
So we took turns a-starin' Out the window at the darkness
The boredom overtook us, he began to speak
He said, "Son, I've made a life Out of readin' people's faces
Knowin' what the cards were By the way they held their eyes
So if you don't mind my sayin' I can see you're out of aces
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice"
So I handed him my bottle And he drank down my last swallow
Then he bummed a cigarette And asked me for a light
And the night got deathly quiet And his faced lost all expression
He said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy You gotta learn to play it right
Every gambler knows That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every hand's a winner And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for Is to die in your sleep"
And when he finished speakin' He turned back toward the window
Crushed out his cigarette And faded off to sleep
And somewhere in the darkness The gambler he broke even
And in his final words I found an ace that I could keep
I agree! Our government has
I agree! Our government has failed us and we are left with very few options to protect ourselves. I see that stores are bringing products from countries deemed safe such as Mexico, Argentina, Iceland and ,ore. To me this reflects peoples concerns and as such have driven the companies to make those changes...a small help...a sign that money is still number one, but in this case it benefits the people. I feel that we will never be told the truth about what is in our food and that the companies will mix in contaminated products with some less contaminated just to make it passable for human consumption. The trust is gone and I feel we are all on our own with our planet slowly being destroyed.