It is all so pathetic
It is all so pathetic that here we all are, seeking answers to Fukushima radiation fallout and anticipated effects from internet forums. Truth seekers spread thin on blogs and forums trying to make sense and conclusions from data and info fed via a slow trickle.
It is equally pathetic that UC Berkeley's BRAWN team is about the only source of test data of any significance. It is even more pathetic that the majority of folks are in the dark about the biggest nuclear disaster in history.
Where is the media? Japan admits withholding data. How has this become acceptable?
Where are all the universities and research groups and agencies? This is an enormous opportunity to capture a full picture of the fallout, correlate results in various mediums, over time, and across the globe.
The data would lead to excellent epidemiological study of the effects of radiation. One could ask why isn't the nuclear industry doing such an endevour. I mean, if it's as safe as nuclear proponents try to claim, wouldn't a large-scale, real-world study of Fukushima be the ideal method to prove their point?
Something is really wrong.
Maybe we are controlled?
I still wonder how so many could worship someone like Obama. So many things in the last ten years seem so odd. Just maybe this is one culprit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADFJlAggnY
Corrected Link
http://youtu.be/nADFJlAggnY
Mmmmm.... masses of docile,
Mmmmm.... masses of docile, easily controlled, loyal human androids.
Thank you.
Thank you.
totally creepy... Science
totally creepy...
Science gone wrong.
Ownership Society
Japanese people - owned as economic trading units
Japanese government - owned by the international financial (banksters)
Japanese media - owned by gov, banksters and industry
Japanese industry - owned by stockholders / banksters
US gov - same
US media - similar
Ownership Society
If you want a different reality WORK to SPEND where it DOES NOT enrich the above. Work with and form collectives. Work in community and WITHHOLD your custom from those whose interests are divergent from your own.
NEVER STOP THE BOYCOTT
BOYCOTT like your life depends on it, because it DOES.
Superb post, brother.
Superb post, brother.
Agreed...I'm going to
Agreed...I'm going to copy/pasta this if you don't mind...
Yes, it is pathetic--and IMMORAL!!
You are so right. Look at us, all desperate for whatever bits of information we can glean from a few bright kids and their professors at ONE institution of higher learning, while all Hell breaks lose and blows around the world.
And, I am so grateful for Arnie Gundersen; one of the few voices still howling in the wilderness.
But, for the most part, all of us here, like the Japanese, are left to our own devices to discern the truth and the danger of the world's worst global nuclear disaster as it continues to poison our air, soil, food and water.
The position we have all been put in is shocking and IMMORAL and TRULY EVIL!
Hhhmm lets re-think it again---Gunderson
I feel the same as all you on here, we are desperate for information. I read a very interesting blog post from someone who claims Gunderson is a psy-ops plant. I laughed at first, cause I watch his videos and think he is pretty much right. But then when I read the entire post I was left scratching my head. The blogger had a real story that seemed credible, explaining the Fukushima accident, and with all the news and media blackouts, how come Gunderson's page is still online for us to read ? Could Mr. Gunderson be a psy-ops plant ?
What do you think ?
Oh, for the love of...
Now Arnie Gunderson's a "psy-ops plant". I wonder if this will be news to Mr. Gunderson.
Maybe the Visitors are using him, a formerly reputable scientist and antinuclear advocate, to foment discord and spread confusion among the public at-large, to make their eventual takeover of the human race easier. Divide, then conquer, and, finally, eat. Gunderson was obviously abducted and taken up to the Mothership for psychological re-education. Has anyone been watching his hands? Did he suddenly switch from being right-handed, to left-handed, or vice versa? Maybe he IS a Visitor, wearing an Arnie Gunderson suit.
Maybe it's the Koch Brothers. You know, they're wealthy enough to be able to afford their own electronic surveillance and intelligence agencies. THEY paid off the Men in Black to build HAARP, then retained the services of COBRA Commander to turn that high-energy weapons installation against the hated Japanese -- you know, this was all orchestrated by George W. Bush, he never got over the fact that the Godless Nips once shot actual bullets at his old man -- in the hopes that it would trigger an earthquake, tsunami, and radiological release that would simultaneously depopulate Japan AND the U.S. Left Coast. And the next quake will submerge California entirely... You know, in addition to gobbling up real estate in the Southern Hemisphere, GWB has ALSO bought huge tracts of land in Nevada that will soon be beachfront property. Being George Bush, naturally, he hatched this dastardly plot after watching "Superman: The Movie".
...No, wait, I've got it: The Fiendish Fluoridators have actually drugged us ALL so thoroughly that we are now in pods in a gigantic human power plant, and our mental gymnastics are now powering the machines as they slowly convert the entire planet into a gigantic Borg Cube. You know, they HAVE to keep us in a heightened emotional state so that our synapses will fire mote frequently, generating the AC energy necessary to fuel SkyNet's total takeover of the Universe. We only THINK three nuclear reactors have melted down, when in fact we're experiencing constant REM sleep. I only know this because my name is Neo and I took the magenta pill. Hail Ziom!
An objective observer might be forgiven for opining:
You people on this Forum are all f---ing nuts. Wake me when Unicron gets here and begins eating the planet.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
Cassandra has lost her mind
Cassandra has lost her mind spewing predictions that no one will hear. Now she just lays here curled up into a ball eating her own hair and pulling her teeth out in an attempt to stop Bill Gates from using her fillings to transmit his mind control frequency. THIS FORUM HAS TERMINAL CANCER.
Links to that blog???
Links to that blog???
White House Lies
.
If you prefer your federal lies from a particular source …
Obama gives the ‘all clear’ signal for Fukushima, bombs Libya and evacuates to South America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/world/americas/20obama-brazil.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870405020457621866035895309...
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/18/obamas-south-america-trip-f...
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2011/0318/High-hopes-for-Obama-s...
To be fair
I'm no fan of Obama by any stretch of the imagination. And I was more than just a little curious about the timing of his South America trip. But, to be fair, a little investigation shows that the trip was planned well in advance of the earthquake off of Japan.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2011/01/27/Obama-faces-tough-diploma...
The 3/19-3/23 trip time was announced back in late January. And he did cut his trip short in light of other events in the world at the time. Which brought him back to the US when the highest radiation levels were being detected on the US west coast.
So, while I'll be one of the first to point out things that he's done wrong, I found it hard to accuse him of anything with regard to the timing of this trip.
. Many 'scheduled' trips get
.
Many 'scheduled' trips get extended, shortened or scrubbed.
Obama evacuated his family and lied to American families. The two actions taken together, constitute 'dereliction of duty'.
'Dereliction of duty' is a specific offense under United States Code Title 10892. (Article 92 and applies to all branches of the US military)
Perhaps we should change the name of the Whitehouse 747 jet to:
'BUGOUT-1'
James Madison faced charges of dereliction of duty, during the War of 1812, for abandoning Washington DC and failure to excercise his role as 'Commander In Chief'. Madison allegedly stole several horses in his fast ride west to the Alleghenies. Dolly Madison, the 1st Lady, calmly, while in harm's way, packed archives such as the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and George Washington's portrait into wagons. Congress declined to make the heroine a widow, by hanging her cowardly husband.
War Powers
.
Absent a Congressional Resolution, Obama attacked Libya unlawfully.
It is cowardly to bomb a 3rd world nation, for no discernable reason other than to 'cover your retreat'.
There is a War Powers Act, and it was breached.
When and what we focus on is
When and what we focus on is determined by our subconscious (our amygdalas) Our subconscious is constantly scanning for danger to ourselves and those we care about. When something seems unusual or strange our fear response is partially activated and we divert some of our attention to it and begin to prime our bodies to react. If our subconscious determines something is very dangerous, it releases a lot of chemicals into our system that makes it very likely that we will redirect a huge portion of our energy on the subject. Because our subconscious has decided we are in danger we are primed to 'act' to remove the danger. We are primed to reassess who we trust and who we don't--if our subconscious determines that we can trust a source, we will trust the source even when they are providing information that we normally would require more proof to accept. When our subconscious decides to distrust a source, it will assume there are deeper negative motives behind almost all information. Our minds in that state consider focus on the danger more important than to sleep, more important than day to day actinos--so sleep disruption is common, and it often can be hard to focus on getting work done, etc. Large the level of stress chemical in ones system also primes us to take rash actions: we are more likely to feel actuely self conscious, and ready to burn bridges and make radical transformations. This can lead to self medication and risky behavior in attempts to relax.
The rest of the country is not in a fear response, they are not doubting the information from public health, they are not accepting the concept of 'hot particles' with no links to where the data is from.
The nuclear emergency may or may not increase our risk from cancer. We all, each and every one of us, face a risk from cancer from multiple sources over our entire lifetime, the risk from this situation blends into the other risks. Extended fear response has more direct risks--both because it is very easy when focused on an abstract danger--it is easy miss that one's personal life is getting out of control (plus the hurt to others for not being focused on)--plus, being primed to do rash things too often leads to 'divorce, Significant other violence, suicide', but it also has direct health consequence. While we are in a state of high readiness to act, the lack of sleep adds up, our blood pressure is altered, our immune system and digestion redirected. The state was intended to be used by our bodies to escape a direct risk: a cougar chasing us, not to go on for months.
If you see any of these patterns in yourself, please work to take steps to stop the fear response. This means letting the topic go for now. After you work your way back to homeostasis (your mind without the influence of the fear response) the topic will still be here, if you choose, you can re-engage. Note that the awareness of exactly what happened in March doesn't lead to any actionable steps. If we were exposed to dangerous levels or not, it is already past, it has already happened.
Just speaking for myself, I
Just speaking for myself,
I am sleeping better than ever, I refuse to take anything mind-altering that would impede my judgment (that includes excess alcohol), after a day or two grieving the life I had previously confidently thought I would lead, I have accepted this new reality of great unknowns and the only things I have cut out of my life since March are the things I realized were meaningless timesucks for me that I would regret on my deathbed (whether it's near or far away), and I have paid more attention to being loving in general and especially to the people that matter.
I have been researching as diligently as possible using as credible sources as possible and have been to prove to myself that the alarm bells went off in error. Still can't. I have yet to read anything that leads me to believe that Fukushima is not a huge freaking deal or somehow knows where Japan's borders end. But, I can deal with that. There's no reality I can't handle. I continue to hope it was a false alarm, I just don't hold my breath for any such discovery. I take the precautions I can, and it's not that hard, well worth it for the peace of mind they provide.
By the way, I'm much prouder of the person I am now than who I was in February.
I think that is excellent,
I think that is excellent, it does sound like you have done a great job managing your mind's response. And you are right, look at the US response to this radiation emergency and you see that just about no one followed the US guidelines on how to respond to a radiation emergency. Where is the constant monitoring?
What I noticed that is that most the gov's response has been focused on managing the public's reaction to the response, not the actual incident. It seemed that a decision was made that there would be no actionable impact on the US long before there was enough data to make that decision--and then after that a lot of energy seemed to be spent on defending that position vs. confirming whether it was correct or not. It sucks that the people we need to turn to for information are also human and get sucked into misidentifying how they are feeling from the actual situation.
I am so grateful to Berekely that they decided to provide as much data as the could and have kept going when almost everyone else stopped.
Great point and to add to
Great point and to add to it , well before we knew if we needed pi a decision was made we didn't need it.supressed panic must have been memo.
Surgeon general clarifies position on potassium iodide as protection against nuclear radiation
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/03/potassium-iodide-concerns-...
The bigger the potentail
The bigger the potentail danger & uncertainty in a situation, the longer it takes for 'official sources' to say anything--this is for two reasons: 1. when the stakes are high our impulse is to withhold data until we know who we can trust, this is an auto-response. 2. Crisis communication goes quickly wrong if everyone is saying different things, response plans require eveyrone stop talking until the lead agency talks, then only say what they say. Well, in this case, the lead agencies are staffed mainly with scientists, and scientists (the good ones) are very careful people wo they don't answer anything quickly, so they really took a long time to say anything at all. Mix that silence with the fear response triggered hyper-vigilence and it was a recipe for disaster. When the 'official sources' finally responded they didn't respond in a constructive way: "this is what we know, this is what we don't know: this is what we think--this is how you can tell if we are wrong, and what you should do if we are" They
instead focused on the public's reaction and targetting their response seems to have been: "Whoa whoa whoa, you are all over reacting, calm down. We are so used to the fact that our entire planet is bathed in radiation that these numbers don't freak us out at all" As such, the outreach was: "Everything is OK, don't worry, don't over react, please, stop over reacting" Then it got worse, because you could almost feel it turn into an emotion-fest--this is an overstatement, but at the time it felt like there was an agle of: "We said it is OK, if you aren't satisfied with that, it means you don't trust us, and since we are the official sources that means, you don't love your country"
I was very frustrated at the time because the focus on calming everyone down and trying to calm down the reaction meant that the communicators were treating the population as if there were no differences between them. There are some individuals who are warned that their health state is such that they should not drink tap water because it has too much radiation in it--those individuals obviously face higher risks if there is any additional fall out on top of that--but the idea that there were specific risk profiles were ignored.
I that that was a result of an auto response as well. In stressful situations we reassess 'us vs them'----this effects who we trust, vs who we do not trust, and also can influence who we give care too--if a group is determined 'them' it doesn't matter quite as much if bad things happen to them, we rationalize it away. In stressful events, risk communicators identify with social groups that remind them of themselves, so time and time again priority goes to getting information to the mainstream masses over the people who actually do face specific risks.
KI
The US government discontinued the Radiation medication supply
There was/is NO stockpile
Obama sold it as excess/superfluous
So the administration was compelled by circumstance to declare that KI was not necessary.
KI is most useful for a
KI is most useful for a close proximity radiological event. The stores were emptied of KI and people were taking KI before any area was experiencing fall out. KI does zippo for hot particles, it is only useful for I-131, taking it once before the fallout arrived wouldn't have been effective, and taking it continuiously on the off chance that maybe you would ingest a harmful amount of I-131 would damage your health. KI itself comes with risk, some people react very badly to KI.
It would be more harmful to our readiness levels if we emptied our stockpiles to give everyone all over the country KI when it was clear that I-131. 132, etc. levels were going to be very very disbursed--especially since a lot of us have are in good shape with natural iodine in our system.
It is really similar to the H1N1 Swine flu response: cities that had no flu there emptied their tamiflu stockpiles.
The readiness for people to ingest really awful stuff based on fear is part of the reason official sources can say very little--did I read in another post on this site someone suggesting people consume radioactive barrium to protect from the unnamed 'hot particles'. Hello?
1st Rodeo
.
This is NOT our 1st Rodeo
NONE of the 4 major therapeutic drugs are/were in the National Strategic Stockpile, which speaks to poor federal preparation.
Timely and Relevant information was/is witheld from the US citizenry.
I have KI supplies on hand, as I live about 60 miles from a reactor. This would constitute preparation, (and not panic) per the US Surgeon General. I have not opened the pill bottle.
I did however increase my daily Centrum vitamin/mineral dosage from one (1) per day (minimum RDA) to two (2)per day. The Maximum Daily allowable for KI is about 8X the minimum. This temporary dosage increase would constitute a critical thinking and a personal health decisison.
I agree that information was
I agree that information was withheld that should have been released. Regarding KI, I haven't seen any data at all that shows that the 'talk to your Dr, but better not to eat KI at this time' was incorrect. Iodine levels were far lower than the action points determined by the Federal Guidelines http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/rert/pags.html this was confirmed by the numbers that they received here, and reflected by other monitoring in So CA, Oregon, Washington State and the Nationally with EPA data, and Internationally with French, Canadian, Austrian and Norwegian data. The fact that the undercounted the amount of Iodine released was no surprise looking at the international data, the Austrian Weather Service addressed it at the time.
The risk communicators didn't get ahead of the fear response, all communication came in the 'don't trust you, ready to do rash things' state that is pretty much impossible to get right (especially if the person doing the communicating is in the same mental state)
It's the dose, stupid.
It's the dose, stupid. American citizens should have been taking a continual low dose of KI, for example a 20-mg loading dose tapering down to 10 mg per day. Consult your physician for details. In some individuals KI even at low dosages can have side effects.
1 size does not fit all
For example:
The American Thyroid Association recommends that women receive 150 ug iodine supplements daily during pregnancy and lactation and that all prenatal vitamin/mineral preparations contain 150 ug of iodine.
http://www.thyroid.org/professionals/publications/statements/documents/A...
Because of the increased daily requirement during pregnancy and the increased renal excretion of iodine during pregnancy, the UI concentration should be higher for pregnant than nonpregnant adults. A recent WHO Technical Consultant Group recommended that the median UI during pregnancy should range between 150 and 249 ug iodine/L, whereas median UI concentrations greater than 250 ug/L are more than adequate and above 500 ug/L, excessive (7). The corresponding optimal iodine intake for pregnancy and lactation, therefore, should be between 225 and 375 ug per day.
KI Dosages
One size does not fit all. There is a small percentage of the general population that is allergic to iodine and may suffer anaphylactic reactions to shrimp or vitamins. Most people suffer no adverse reactions to KI, which is essential to health, even when administered the massive emergency ‘radiation exposure’ dosages.
The USDA Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for KI
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI//DRI_Vitamin_A/258-289_150.pdf
The KI recommendations of the American Thyroid Association, Richard T. Kloos, MD,
http://www.thyroid.org/professionals/publications/statements/ki/02_04_09...
The ATA Emergency KI recommendations are somewhat more stringent than the NRC guidelines.
http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/emerg-preparedness/about-emerg-preparedness...
IODINE
.
Those wishing to review the evidence based medical literature for dietary Iodine requirements are advised to begin with this document. The minimum and maximum recommended daily intakes are detailed.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI//DRI_Vitamin_A/258-289_150.pdf
IODINE
No Observed Adverse Effect Level (NOAEL)
Lowest Observed Adverse Effect Level (LOAEL)
Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL)
See this slideshow.
See this slideshow. http://www.donaldmiller.com/Healthy%20and%20Harmful%20Halogens.ppt
Let me ask BRAWM a question:
Let me ask BRAWM a question: given the underdosing of iodine in America relative Japan by an order of magnitude, have the levels of radioactive iodine in our air, soils, and water been sufficiently high to jeopardize our thyroids?
According to that slide, the average Jap consumes about 15 mg a day of iodine from seaweeds while the American is lucky to get 150 ucg. Do you think the typical Jap dosage of 15 mg a day to be relatively radioprotective?
"Jump to Japan?: Japan.
"Jump to Japan?: Japan. Less than 1% of Japan practices water fluoridation."
I also did some quick research and apparently by default toothpastes in Japan are without fluoride.
So in addition to the relative iodine deficiency of Americans vs Japanese, you also have to factor in the relative fluoride excess of Americans. As these halogens compete for access to the thyroid, does this further make Americans more vulnerable to radioactive iodine? Has this been studied?
Quack Alert
Quack, Quack
The man seems exceedingly
The man seems exceedingly honest, intellectually curious, wise, thoroughly qualified, accomplished, and you get losers who post almost instantaneously with QUACK QUACK BAH BAH. How annoying. Everything in that slideshow is the truth and nothing but the truth. If you can't handle it I suggest you give it to someone who can.
From a recent 5-way by-pass
From a recent 5-way by-pass patient, October 29, 2001
By Clifford M. Lindsey (Freeland, WA USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Heart in Hand (Paperback)
Dr Miller told me of his book, and as I was so impressed with him as a person and a surgeon, it was the first book I read during my recovery. Even though I was still on pain killers when I started, I couldn't put it down, staying awake longer than I should have each night.
I heartily agree with the first two reviews written before mine, and will let them stand as my views also.
To unwind from his work, Dr. Miller told me he that on Saturdays he frequently gets an intellectually stimulating book on tape, and then takes his dog for an all day hike in the Cascade Mountains (near Seattle) while he listens to the book. This gives me the thought that he really is a renaissance man.
Pain killers aside, I thought the whole theme falls together for you during the last few pages. You may wonder as you go along as to how it all falls together. He does not disappoint you at the end.
I felt it was one of the best books I have ever read.
http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Hand-Donald-W-Miller/dp/0738806692
Quack - Quack
It is a matter of complete indifference how many hokey pseudo-health books are sold per year.
It is equally insignificant, how many mega-doses of vitamins, minerals and other miracle-nostrums are sold at a premium price when taken by adults.
There are enough professional standards, associations, license reviews and malpractice lawsuits to thin out most of the quacks. There is enough slack in the system to allow for advances from new directions.
I don't care if adults skydive without a reserve chute.
Unbelievable. FYI, the
Unbelievable.
FYI, the founder of "mega-doses" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling
Linus
When DID Linus attend medical school?
Bright guy, regarding DNA
That Megadose vitamin C thing has not panned out.
The notion eemed plausible, but crumbled under intensive research.
http://vitamincfoundation.org
http://vitamincfoundation.org/
You didn't care in the least
You didn't care in the least of medical school when accusing Dr. Miller of being a quack.
Cared enough to check
I did care enough to check
Linus Pauling was not a physician. His vitamin C megadose hypothesis contributed more to flatulence levels than cures.
Miller is a physician, apparently of the quack-quack variety. Sounds like a 'salt-selling' son-of-a-gun. How much does he get (retail) for a dose of common KI salt?
Are you insane? I checked
Are you insane? I checked myself and Miller has a thriving career as a cardiac surgeon and is an author of several books with NO relation to KI.
RU Stupid
Certainly you ask irrelevant questions. Examples: "Are you stupid, ugly and chemically altered? Do you still beat your spouse."
Personal Attacks (Ad Hominems) and Buverisms do not add much to the strength of argumens.
The readers have the evidence and arguments and are able to decide the matter for themselves. If they wish to pay 50X for common KI bulk chemicals, for the privilege of being over-dosed, it is their decision.
http://medical.washington.edu
http://medical.washington.edu/bios/view.aspx?CentralId=19456
Donald W. Miller, Jr "As a
Donald W. Miller, Jr
"As a professor of surgery, I teach cardiac surgery at the University of Washington School of Medicine and the Seattle VA Medical Center. As a physician, I research and write articles on the importance of natural and nutritional medicine for maintaining optimum health. I also study and write articles about history, philosophy, book collecting, medical and legal evidence, politics, and various orthodoxies in the climate and biomedical sciences."
http://www.donaldmiller.com/biography.htm
This is no quack. What has you saying that?
Quack - Quack
I am not a big fan of so called 'private enterprise medicine', megavitamin regimes, anti-innoculation charliatans.
My preference runs toward 'evidence based medicine', with a rational degree of skepticism.
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no4/correspondence.pdf
www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=1007
www.enatal.com/pdfs/JHIMSpring2003-14.pdf
vaccines.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=009427
You are calling him a quack.
You are calling him a quack. Justify it.
Just did
Quack - Quack
Done,
The evidence, for that call is cited above.
Mostly on this website, we do our own thinking.
NO KI ... continued
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us_health_care_system_unprepared_...
U.S. health-care system unprepared for major nuclear emergency, officials say
By Sheri Fink, Thursday, April 7, 12:40 PM
A blunt assessment says, “Current capabilities can only handle a few radiation injuries at any one time.” That assessment, prepared by the Department of Homeland Security in 2010 and stamped “for official use only,’’ says “there is no strategy for notifying the public in real time of recommendations on shelter or evacuation priorities.”
One example: The U.S. Strategic National Stockpile stopped purchasing the best-known agent to counter radioactive iodine-induced thyroid cancer in young people, potassium iodide, about two years ago and designated the limited remaining quantities “excess,”. Despite this, the CDC Web site still lists potassium iodide as one of only four drugs in the stockpile specifically for use in radiation emergencies.