"There's really only one way this happens (and only one way) -- you have to expose this strain of e.coli to all eight classes of antibiotics drugs. Usually this isn't done at the same time, of course: You first expose it to penicillin and find the surviving colonies which are resistant to penicillin. You then take those surviving colonies and expose them to tetracycline. The surviving colonies are now resistant to both penicillin and tetracycline. You then expose them to a sulfa drug and collect the surviving colonies from that, and so on. It is a process of genetic selection done in a laboratory with a desired outcome. This is essentially how some bioweapons are engineered by the U.S. Army in its laboratory facility in Ft. Detrick, Maryland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...)."
Sakharov, who was the "father" of the Soviet H-Bomb, a Nobel Laureate, became a Soiet dissident because he opposed further above ground nuclear tests due to mutations and the consequences of global low level radiation mutating not only humans and causing illness and death but also the mutation of viruses and bacteria. In the 1950's he wrote in the formerly secret Bulletin of Soviet Atom Scientists that such radiation would potentially cause pandemics as bacteria and viruses mutate new strains to which humans have not yet evolved resistance to and biological defense mechanisms.
The article above quotes the following form Sakharov's Memoir:
"(B)ack in the 1950s, the so-called ‘father of the [Soviet] hydrogen bomb’ predicted that the radioactive fallout from the ‘Cold War’ could accelerate the rise of mutant pathogens, including influenzas."
"Andrei Sakharov, the atomic scientist-turned-critic, wrote in his book 'Memoirs' (published last decade) that in the late 1950s he suggested 'that a global increase in mutations of bacteria and viruses...might have been an important factor in the spread of such diseases as diphtheria in the nineteenth century, or the influenza epidemic, and that low-level radiation might further increase the rate of mutations.’"
"Sakharov's 1950’s prediction may have come true according to a rare grouping of scientists who have connected the rise of certain diseases and disorders with the peaking of radioactive emissions from nuclear power plants on regional scales or nuclear testing on a global scale. Sara Shannon, author of 'Technology's Curse: Diet for the Atomic Age,' wrote in the late 1990s that new ailments such as Reyes Syndrome, Legionnaire's Disease, and Lyme Disease (and possibly AIDS) may be related to the deadly combination of immune systems weakened and virus mutations worsened by the presence of man-made radiation. Shannon notes that Lyme Disease appeared in about the same year that a huge radiation release from one of two Connecticut nuclear power plants occurred. She speculated that the radioactive fallout in southeastern Connecticut may have mutated the spirochete in tick-borne Lyme Disease, which has now spread to Canada and numerous U.S. states. If you consider that nuclear testing fallout spread to nearly every square mile of the Earth, still hasn’t fully decayed and is detectable in nearly every country's food chains, including livestock, then you get a better idea of the possibility that all viruses or bacteria everywhere have an increased chance of mutating into something worse."
More at link
The fact is that as our immune systems are compromised and our dna is damaged by low level radiation - at the same time viruses and bacteria will mutate to more virulent strains killing more people. Only ongoing genetic research of these pathogens can determine when they change and how they change and whether this is Fukushima related (a very hard premise to establish without lots of hard data - was the produce the sickened and dead ate tested for cesium or strontium, for example?)
It is just one more thing to be aware of and to watch out for and to praise BRAWM for its work for as we KNOW that the food is contaminated: do we know whether the contamination has caused mutations of e-coli etc? Not yet. But thanks to BRAWM and others like them we may be able to know whether Sakharov's predictions of pandemics from this socalled "low level" radiation is really the cause of outbreaks of illness and death like this.
One more reason to make sure you wash your food and cook it well.
"Radiation hormesis proposes that radiation exposure comparable to and just
above the natural background level of radiation is not harmful but
beneficial, while accepting that much higher levels of radiation are
hazardous. Proponents of radiation hormesis typically claim that radio-
protective responses in cells and the immune system not only counter the
harmful effects of radiation but additionally act to inhibit spontaneous
cancer not related to radiation exposure. Radiation hormesis stands in
stark contrast to the generally excepted linear no-threshold model (LNT),
which states that the radiation dose-risk relationship is linear and there
is no safe level of radiation exposure even at minute doses."
I cannot help but observe that whenever a postulated theory from the 'Pro
Nuclear Lobby' claims to 'minimize' or 'negate' the adverse health effects
of low-level-ionizing radiation, such a theory is validated even to the
point of entry into the BEIR VII report: http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/beir_vii_final.pdf
"There are two competing hypotheses to the linear no-threshold model. One
is that low doses of radiation are more harmful than a linear, no-threshold
model of effects would suggest. BEIR VII finds that the radiation health
effects research, taken as a whole, does not support this hypothesis. The
other hypothesis suggests that risks are smaller than predicted by the
linear nothreshold model are nonexistent, or that low doses of radiation
may even be beneficial."
(Last page under research needs- 'Hormesis' or the 'Hormetic Effect')
However when the exact postulation potentially 'expresses perfectly' what
is currently happening in terms of 'mutation in crops and strains of
viruses, etc...', the knee-jerk reaction is to quickly 'quash' the idea as
'speculation'.
Certainly no conclusions can be drawn until the Chinese or whoever
recreate the process under controlled conditions- which they no doubt will
be able to do. After all- they just mapped the genetic sequence in days. In
light of that, it shouldn't be too difficult to reproduce a virulent
mutation if that's the case. They are probably already on it: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/further-analysis-on-improved-gen...
If it turns out to be the case, then the Pro Nuclear Lobby will be able to
celebrate 'Hormesis' being proven, in the exact opposite manner of which
they championed.
Submitted by Leo (not verified) on Sat, 2011-06-04 19:44.
I know this could never ever happen- it's impossible...but if
this 'out of control event' were to surprise everyone with new
developments such as we are merely discussing...if a year from
now the state of California were experiencing 'difficulty' in
the form of radioactive waves lapping at our shores and
everything that means for local soil, water and air, how excited
would UC Berkeley students be to defend the 'airplane analogy' at
that point?
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2011-06-03 08:50.
Sure, we cannot rule out the fact that simple organisms can suffer mutations at a rapid rate under ionizing radiation. But one dumb question needs to be asked though: why didn't the outbreak happen around Fukushima - where you'd expect much rapid mutation of all sorts of bugs - but half the world away in Germany? So far, the radiation-mutation link in the case of e.coli is just speculation unless proved by experimental data in controlled conditions.
Submitted by angusmerlin (not verified) on Sat, 2011-06-04 00:58.
More food for thought,
Perhaps just as with cancers not showing up until years after exposure to low level radiations over long periods of time, resulting mutations of various kinds (including deadly pathogens) may also not show up until years after various interactions/incubation after long periods of time.
Submitted by angusmerlin (not verified) on Sat, 2011-06-04 01:16.
Now consider, too, that throughout the history of humankind, various deadly pathogens have shown up to decimate world populations. So, it gets extremely difficult to ferret out exactly what causes these various deadly little mutations.
Submitted by Bill (not verified) on Fri, 2011-06-03 12:55.
But you raise the right question, more or less, in that UNLESS we have the data from controlled conditions we will be unbable to be certain.
I would suggest the following, though, in response: First, you may remember that there was a food born illness breakout where multiple persons died from meat in Japan shortly after the contamination there.
Second, there may ba very many cases of such illnesses which are isolated or which are not serious enough yet to see death in large numbers in Japan or elsewhere.
Also, it may very well be that JUST THE RIGHT CONDITIONS existed for this particular mutant to emerge in Europe - and perhaps it is a result of both Chernobyl AND Fukushima and additional contamination loads in Europe or other factors such as a chemical or other contamination which had a synergistic effect.
Obviously this is all simply a theory for why this particularly deadly strain emerged now - but my main point was the establish that this possibility and likleihood was predicted by one of the "fathers' and geniuses of nuclear "power" more than a half century ago and MAY be the explanation for multiple pandemics such as SARS, bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, Legionnaire's, Cruise Ship (Norwalk) virus, Lyme disease, etc etc etc caused by "new mutant" strains of pathogens since the beginning of the nuclear age which changed old strains into deadly )or deadlier) ones.
It is something to be aware of and to push for more data and studies to know as much as possible.
Submitted by R. Cromack (not verified) on Thu, 2011-06-02 12:13.
...Here's where, to coin a phrase, "reasonable paranoia" may intersect unhelpfully with wildly speculative and insupportable fear-mongering. The REALITY of the ongoing Japan nuclear event, so far as can be ascertained, estimated and (to a small degree) comprehended, is bad enough; let's try not to hold hands as certain would-be prophets of the unfolding apocalypse jump eagerly off the cliffs of sanity.
NO ONE with ANY degree of credibility in the medical, public-health or radiological science fields is suggesting that the current, previously undiscovered vegetable-borne bacteria currently sweeping through west-central Europe is in even the LEAST way related to the radiation emanating from Japan. Yes, I suppose it's theoretically possible; no, I don't think we'll EVER know for certain, any more than we'll ever be able to forensically link any one person's disease to Fukushima. With this many variables, this many unknowns, this many factors, all that's going to be possible are statistical probabilities... and even those will be more guesswork than fact; MUCH more, I'd wager.
Mutations are an absolutely essential and unavailable function of life, folks. They happen with EVERY generation, particularly in complex life. That's why a parent's DNA is different from their child's. Even within the course of a single lifetime, DNA changes.
Some mutations are beneficial. Others are detrimental. Most -- the overwhelming majority -- are unsuccessful, lasting only a single generation. Most are never noticed, even by the life form they are a small part of. All are, in the aggregate, necessary -- even the "bad" ones. Sometimes, ESPECIALLY the bad ones. Although they can damage and even destroy populations, those that adapt and survive are the stronger for it. Ever wonder why some people are immune to a particular illness while everyone else seems to get sick? At some point in the generations, very likely it's a result of some manner of mutation; either of the host / victim that renders it immune, or of the infecting or parasitic vector, weakening it so that when it affects a host, that life form survives it and is made immune by its experience, then transferring that resistance to subsequent generations.
I should point out also that virtually every innoculation, antibody and vaccine in history is the beneficiary of mutation. Polio could not have been all but wiped out without it. Seasonal flu vaccines depend on it (so does the survival of influenza, itself, naturally). AIDS will likely not be cured without it (assuming it ever is).
Will Japan's nuclear disasters cause mutations? Absolutely. Will they affect mankind? Yes. Some, such as cancers or bacteria and viruses that, trying to adapt, themselves, will wind up infecting and weakening and harming and even killing us. What radiation really does, from a global perspective, is potentially "speed up" the normal rate of mutation, by introducing a greater rate of change into affected populations. There are SO many possible alterations, SO many unpredictable interactions with environment and other organisms, that no single mutation can reasonably be called, "inevitable" -- it's simply too big a universe, with far too many potentialities. But neither can we easily ascribe any specific variation, no matter how infamous, inconvenient, unavoidable or lethal, to any specific cause except, perhaps, in the most controlled, restrictive and well-understood of circumstances. This is not one of those by ANY flight of the imagination.
Besides, early analysis indicates that this is the result of a conjoining of two existing, known "bugs" from two different parts of the world. Such things happen, a kind of microbial hook-up. As with most human versions of same, they don't normally result in a long-term relationship. What happens in Vegas, generally stays in Vegas. But once in awhile, such a partnership thrives, given the right circumstances, environment and conditions. For this so-called "superbug", the population of Europe might as well be the suburbs. To infer more than that at this point is probably a waste of time.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2011-06-02 10:36.
It's how every species got where it is today. And I believe that
pre-dates nuclear research. Which isn't to say that natural radiation
doesn't play a role in genetic mutation.
phonak hearing aids
I believe that when we as a world forget to do the little things right, this is when things like e-coli become a problem again.
This again, maybe the Jews
This again, maybe the Jews created the e coli "superbug" too huh Stoney? After all it did hit Germany
More likely
http://www.naturalnews.com/032622_ecoli_bioengineering.html
"There's really only one way this happens (and only one way) -- you have to expose this strain of e.coli to all eight classes of antibiotics drugs. Usually this isn't done at the same time, of course: You first expose it to penicillin and find the surviving colonies which are resistant to penicillin. You then take those surviving colonies and expose them to tetracycline. The surviving colonies are now resistant to both penicillin and tetracycline. You then expose them to a sulfa drug and collect the surviving colonies from that, and so on. It is a process of genetic selection done in a laboratory with a desired outcome. This is essentially how some bioweapons are engineered by the U.S. Army in its laboratory facility in Ft. Detrick, Maryland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...)."
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032622_ecoli_bioengineering.html#ixzz1OicKhizE
Andrei Sakharov predicted virus/bacteria pandemics in 1950's
Just a little food for thought:
http://www.countercurrents.org/kishner110509.htm
Sakharov, who was the "father" of the Soviet H-Bomb, a Nobel Laureate, became a Soiet dissident because he opposed further above ground nuclear tests due to mutations and the consequences of global low level radiation mutating not only humans and causing illness and death but also the mutation of viruses and bacteria. In the 1950's he wrote in the formerly secret Bulletin of Soviet Atom Scientists that such radiation would potentially cause pandemics as bacteria and viruses mutate new strains to which humans have not yet evolved resistance to and biological defense mechanisms.
The article above quotes the following form Sakharov's Memoir:
"(B)ack in the 1950s, the so-called ‘father of the [Soviet] hydrogen bomb’ predicted that the radioactive fallout from the ‘Cold War’ could accelerate the rise of mutant pathogens, including influenzas."
"Andrei Sakharov, the atomic scientist-turned-critic, wrote in his book 'Memoirs' (published last decade) that in the late 1950s he suggested 'that a global increase in mutations of bacteria and viruses...might have been an important factor in the spread of such diseases as diphtheria in the nineteenth century, or the influenza epidemic, and that low-level radiation might further increase the rate of mutations.’"
"Sakharov's 1950’s prediction may have come true according to a rare grouping of scientists who have connected the rise of certain diseases and disorders with the peaking of radioactive emissions from nuclear power plants on regional scales or nuclear testing on a global scale. Sara Shannon, author of 'Technology's Curse: Diet for the Atomic Age,' wrote in the late 1990s that new ailments such as Reyes Syndrome, Legionnaire's Disease, and Lyme Disease (and possibly AIDS) may be related to the deadly combination of immune systems weakened and virus mutations worsened by the presence of man-made radiation. Shannon notes that Lyme Disease appeared in about the same year that a huge radiation release from one of two Connecticut nuclear power plants occurred. She speculated that the radioactive fallout in southeastern Connecticut may have mutated the spirochete in tick-borne Lyme Disease, which has now spread to Canada and numerous U.S. states. If you consider that nuclear testing fallout spread to nearly every square mile of the Earth, still hasn’t fully decayed and is detectable in nearly every country's food chains, including livestock, then you get a better idea of the possibility that all viruses or bacteria everywhere have an increased chance of mutating into something worse."
More at link
The fact is that as our immune systems are compromised and our dna is damaged by low level radiation - at the same time viruses and bacteria will mutate to more virulent strains killing more people. Only ongoing genetic research of these pathogens can determine when they change and how they change and whether this is Fukushima related (a very hard premise to establish without lots of hard data - was the produce the sickened and dead ate tested for cesium or strontium, for example?)
It is just one more thing to be aware of and to watch out for and to praise BRAWM for its work for as we KNOW that the food is contaminated: do we know whether the contamination has caused mutations of e-coli etc? Not yet. But thanks to BRAWM and others like them we may be able to know whether Sakharov's predictions of pandemics from this socalled "low level" radiation is really the cause of outbreaks of illness and death like this.
One more reason to make sure you wash your food and cook it well.
Sounds like it could potentially be 'Hormesis'
Doesn't this sound like the 'Hormetic Effect', except that instead of
'healing' it 'hurts'?
In that, is this not the same type of 'effect' the Pro-Nuclear Lobby has
been pushing in ‘Hormesis’?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
"Radiation hormesis proposes that radiation exposure comparable to and just
above the natural background level of radiation is not harmful but
beneficial, while accepting that much higher levels of radiation are
hazardous. Proponents of radiation hormesis typically claim that radio-
protective responses in cells and the immune system not only counter the
harmful effects of radiation but additionally act to inhibit spontaneous
cancer not related to radiation exposure. Radiation hormesis stands in
stark contrast to the generally excepted linear no-threshold model (LNT),
which states that the radiation dose-risk relationship is linear and there
is no safe level of radiation exposure even at minute doses."
I cannot help but observe that whenever a postulated theory from the 'Pro
Nuclear Lobby' claims to 'minimize' or 'negate' the adverse health effects
of low-level-ionizing radiation, such a theory is validated even to the
point of entry into the BEIR VII report:
http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/beir_vii_final.pdf
"There are two competing hypotheses to the linear no-threshold model. One
is that low doses of radiation are more harmful than a linear, no-threshold
model of effects would suggest. BEIR VII finds that the radiation health
effects research, taken as a whole, does not support this hypothesis. The
other hypothesis suggests that risks are smaller than predicted by the
linear nothreshold model are nonexistent, or that low doses of radiation
may even be beneficial."
(Last page under research needs- 'Hormesis' or the 'Hormetic Effect')
However when the exact postulation potentially 'expresses perfectly' what
is currently happening in terms of 'mutation in crops and strains of
viruses, etc...', the knee-jerk reaction is to quickly 'quash' the idea as
'speculation'.
Certainly no conclusions can be drawn until the Chinese or whoever
recreate the process under controlled conditions- which they no doubt will
be able to do. After all- they just mapped the genetic sequence in days. In
light of that, it shouldn't be too difficult to reproduce a virulent
mutation if that's the case. They are probably already on it:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/further-analysis-on-improved-gen...
If it turns out to be the case, then the Pro Nuclear Lobby will be able to
celebrate 'Hormesis' being proven, in the exact opposite manner of which
they championed.
I wonder...
I know this could never ever happen- it's impossible...but if
this 'out of control event' were to surprise everyone with new
developments such as we are merely discussing...if a year from
now the state of California were experiencing 'difficulty' in
the form of radioactive waves lapping at our shores and
everything that means for local soil, water and air, how excited
would UC Berkeley students be to defend the 'airplane analogy' at
that point?
Not 'very' I think.
Sure, we cannot rule out the
Sure, we cannot rule out the fact that simple organisms can suffer mutations at a rapid rate under ionizing radiation. But one dumb question needs to be asked though: why didn't the outbreak happen around Fukushima - where you'd expect much rapid mutation of all sorts of bugs - but half the world away in Germany? So far, the radiation-mutation link in the case of e.coli is just speculation unless proved by experimental data in controlled conditions.
it has I am sure!- the
it has I am sure!- the people of Japan I am sure are all pretty ill by now dont you think? We are just not hearing much about them.
More food for
More food for thought,
Perhaps just as with cancers not showing up until years after exposure to low level radiations over long periods of time, resulting mutations of various kinds (including deadly pathogens) may also not show up until years after various interactions/incubation after long periods of time.
Now consider, too, that
Now consider, too, that throughout the history of humankind, various deadly pathogens have shown up to decimate world populations. So, it gets extremely difficult to ferret out exactly what causes these various deadly little mutations.
I agree that correlation is not proof of causation
But you raise the right question, more or less, in that UNLESS we have the data from controlled conditions we will be unbable to be certain.
I would suggest the following, though, in response: First, you may remember that there was a food born illness breakout where multiple persons died from meat in Japan shortly after the contamination there.
Second, there may ba very many cases of such illnesses which are isolated or which are not serious enough yet to see death in large numbers in Japan or elsewhere.
Also, it may very well be that JUST THE RIGHT CONDITIONS existed for this particular mutant to emerge in Europe - and perhaps it is a result of both Chernobyl AND Fukushima and additional contamination loads in Europe or other factors such as a chemical or other contamination which had a synergistic effect.
Obviously this is all simply a theory for why this particularly deadly strain emerged now - but my main point was the establish that this possibility and likleihood was predicted by one of the "fathers' and geniuses of nuclear "power" more than a half century ago and MAY be the explanation for multiple pandemics such as SARS, bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, Legionnaire's, Cruise Ship (Norwalk) virus, Lyme disease, etc etc etc caused by "new mutant" strains of pathogens since the beginning of the nuclear age which changed old strains into deadly )or deadlier) ones.
It is something to be aware of and to push for more data and studies to know as much as possible.
Thank You
Good one!Thank You for that eye opener.
And by "mutant" I mean
And by "mutant" I mean radiation.
Okay...
...Here's where, to coin a phrase, "reasonable paranoia" may intersect unhelpfully with wildly speculative and insupportable fear-mongering. The REALITY of the ongoing Japan nuclear event, so far as can be ascertained, estimated and (to a small degree) comprehended, is bad enough; let's try not to hold hands as certain would-be prophets of the unfolding apocalypse jump eagerly off the cliffs of sanity.
NO ONE with ANY degree of credibility in the medical, public-health or radiological science fields is suggesting that the current, previously undiscovered vegetable-borne bacteria currently sweeping through west-central Europe is in even the LEAST way related to the radiation emanating from Japan. Yes, I suppose it's theoretically possible; no, I don't think we'll EVER know for certain, any more than we'll ever be able to forensically link any one person's disease to Fukushima. With this many variables, this many unknowns, this many factors, all that's going to be possible are statistical probabilities... and even those will be more guesswork than fact; MUCH more, I'd wager.
Mutations are an absolutely essential and unavailable function of life, folks. They happen with EVERY generation, particularly in complex life. That's why a parent's DNA is different from their child's. Even within the course of a single lifetime, DNA changes.
Some mutations are beneficial. Others are detrimental. Most -- the overwhelming majority -- are unsuccessful, lasting only a single generation. Most are never noticed, even by the life form they are a small part of. All are, in the aggregate, necessary -- even the "bad" ones. Sometimes, ESPECIALLY the bad ones. Although they can damage and even destroy populations, those that adapt and survive are the stronger for it. Ever wonder why some people are immune to a particular illness while everyone else seems to get sick? At some point in the generations, very likely it's a result of some manner of mutation; either of the host / victim that renders it immune, or of the infecting or parasitic vector, weakening it so that when it affects a host, that life form survives it and is made immune by its experience, then transferring that resistance to subsequent generations.
I should point out also that virtually every innoculation, antibody and vaccine in history is the beneficiary of mutation. Polio could not have been all but wiped out without it. Seasonal flu vaccines depend on it (so does the survival of influenza, itself, naturally). AIDS will likely not be cured without it (assuming it ever is).
Will Japan's nuclear disasters cause mutations? Absolutely. Will they affect mankind? Yes. Some, such as cancers or bacteria and viruses that, trying to adapt, themselves, will wind up infecting and weakening and harming and even killing us. What radiation really does, from a global perspective, is potentially "speed up" the normal rate of mutation, by introducing a greater rate of change into affected populations. There are SO many possible alterations, SO many unpredictable interactions with environment and other organisms, that no single mutation can reasonably be called, "inevitable" -- it's simply too big a universe, with far too many potentialities. But neither can we easily ascribe any specific variation, no matter how infamous, inconvenient, unavoidable or lethal, to any specific cause except, perhaps, in the most controlled, restrictive and well-understood of circumstances. This is not one of those by ANY flight of the imagination.
Besides, early analysis indicates that this is the result of a conjoining of two existing, known "bugs" from two different parts of the world. Such things happen, a kind of microbial hook-up. As with most human versions of same, they don't normally result in a long-term relationship. What happens in Vegas, generally stays in Vegas. But once in awhile, such a partnership thrives, given the right circumstances, environment and conditions. For this so-called "superbug", the population of Europe might as well be the suburbs. To infer more than that at this point is probably a waste of time.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
Perhaps you recall the H5N1
Perhaps you recall the H5N1 virus?
Or that each and every year, there are different viruses that come around?
Mutation is nothing new
It's how every species got where it is today. And I believe that
pre-dates nuclear research. Which isn't to say that natural radiation
doesn't play a role in genetic mutation.