Attn Mark - New measurements to look at

Posted by BC 5/29/11 3PM PST

I hope know one sees this till Tuesday, because you should be grilling and perhaps drinking. I will be tending to those issues soon.

I have a 3' by 6' piece of glass over my square foot garden. I wiped a bunch of nasty alkili dust/rain/mud (which has accumulated over the past week, but had been sprayed off prior to that) )off of it today at about 10AM and took some counts immediately with my "crackerjack radiation monitor." The sample was on a paper towel and it was pretty muddy looking.

AM count 10 AM

Control (background) 95counts/5minutes
Sample 103counts/5minutes

Then this PM, 3 counts on each, back to back, at approx 2:20-3 PM

98/5 control
112/5 sample

92/5 control
106/5 sample

91/5 control
83/5 sample

If I were to toss out that fourth count (which look very low for the sample compared to the other two), the data would look even more skewed towards there being isotopes in the dust/rainwater. I do live in an area with a lot of natural radon, and apparently by looking at the city's latest water tests, the level of uranium in our water is 6 on a scale of 1-6. Also, there is a lot of open pit gold mining and I wouldn't be surprised if dust from these mines may be slightly radioactive. FWIW, rain had stooped at around 8AM, so I would think that if radon daughters present in rain were the issue the PM counts would reflect a drop in activity.

Do I have the level of resolution to provide any useable level of data here?

Mark/BRAWM , awaiting your comments on this info.

Hi BC, thanks for continuing

Hi BC, thanks for continuing to take data :) I'm trying to make sense of what you have measured here. When you say "95 counts/5 minutes" does that mean you counted 95 clicks over 5 minutes? Or is that the average reading on the dial in CPM during those 5 minutes? Or do you mean something else? This is important because it goes into how the uncertainties would be calculated, and thus how statistically significant the excess counts are. I'm a little concerned about that fourth measurement -- is there something you did differently for that measurement that might have contributed to the much lower count rate? Is there a good reason to disregard it without looking at the result? Without knowing the uncertainties on the measurements, I cannot tell for sure whether you're observing a significant excess in radioactivity. You might need to take data for longer times (10 minutes?) and right after (or during) the rain. About half of the radon daughters are gone every 40 minutes, and if the amount is small to begin with the excess radioactivity could quickly be down in the measurement noise. But keep it up! Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

Mark - Those counts are are

Mark -

Those counts are are per five minutes, so the 95 counts/5 minutes = 19 CPM, and so on.

I agree that the fourth measurement is odd. I did not change my methodology at all FWIW.

I still have the sample and will try to pull a couple more counts on it.

I would imagine that the equipment you guys use is able to blocks all background radiation. I am thinking lead shielded "cave" that the sample goes in that isolates all variables from background. Is this the case?

BC

Statistical analysis

Okay, so since it sounds like you were counting the clicks for periods of 5 minutes, then we can use Poisson (counting) statistics to understand the significance (or not) of the measurements. Under counting statistics, the uncertainty of a measurement of N counts can be calculated like this:     Uncertainty(N) = SquareRoot(N) And the uncertainty of the difference between two measurements N1 and N2 can be calculated like this:     Uncertainty(N2-N1) = SquareRoot(N1+N2)     [Note the plus sign on the right hand side!] So here's how I would report your results, including the excess:
Time since rainfallBackground countsSample countsExcess counts
2:00 hours95±9.7103±10.18±14.1
6:20-7:00 hours (#1)98±9.9112±10.614±14.5
6:20-7:00 hours (#2)92±9.6106±10.314±14.1
6:20-7:00 hours (#3)91±9.5 83±9.1-8±13.2
Or you can divide everything by 5 to get the counts per minute:
Time since rainfallBackground (CPM)Sample (CPM)Excess (CPM)
2:00 hours19.0±1.920.6±2.01.6±2.8
6:20-7:00 hours (#1)19.6±2.022.4±2.12.8±2.9
6:20-7:00 hours (#2)18.4±1.921.2±2.12.8±2.8
6:20-7:00 hours (#3)18.2±1.916.6±1.8-1.6±2.6
Since none of the excess counts are larger than twice the uncertainty, your measurements are inconclusive as to whether the sample is radioactive. The uncertainties also explain that anomalous fourth result -- it is lower than average, but not significantly so. So it is not an anomaly after all! Good point about the lead caves we use. In order to win the "signal-to-noise" problem, which is what you have stumbled upon, we try to get as few counts from background as possible by shielding with lead. We also use a much larger and more powerful detector than the unit you have, and we get a spectrum from the radiation instead of a "click." We also sometimes count the samples for days -- the counting time is very important! So all of that combines to give us very high sensitivity to radioactive material. By the way, I wanted to leave you with something to think about. Based on the background count rates you are getting, we can estimate your detector's sensitivity to a change in count rate -- sort of like your version of the Minimum Detectable Activity. Using an average background rate of 18.5 counts per minute, and counting statistics:
Counting time
(minutes)
Count rate sensitivity
(CPM)
(95% confidence)
112.2
55.4
103.8
302.2
601.6
Also one further thing -- try to measure as soon after rainfall as possible. Every 40 minutes, the radon progeny activity decreases by about half! Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

Bump. Mark - please note

Bump.

Mark - please note that this monitor is listed as +/- 10% at maximum scale. Here is the monitor I used.

http://seintl.com/products/monitor_4_old.html

I am still scratching my head as to what is in that sample....

Thank you and the whole team once again.

Bump

Bump

Bump

Bump

Bumping again. Not trying to

Bumping again.

Not trying to be impatient, though:).