Radioactive Iodine confusion after speaking with certified lab

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2011-05-17 16:15

I really hope that a member of the BRAWM team answers this because I am sooo confused.

Just today, I spoke with the radiation specialist at a certified lab that will remain unnamed. In speaking to the ability of being able to identify radioactivity that can be attributed to Fukushima, I said that it was my understanding that levels of radioactive iodine that, for example, were identified in rainwater in various US cities could be attributed as coming from Fukushima, as opposed to "background levels" (however defined, because of the relatively short half-life of radioactive iodine.

This specialist corrected me. She said that that is not true. That, in fact, radioactive iodine could be from past incidents, such as Chernobyl and Three Mile Island.

I ran this by her several times just to make sure that I had not mistaken what she said. But she clearly stated that there could be radioactive elements that are still "breaking down" into particles of radioactive iodine as there is an ongoing criticality.

Please, could someone really "in the know" address this?

‹ How about Plutonium and Uranium Isotopes that are More Dangerous than the Gamma You are Measuring? Sushi Fish? Japanese Tea? etc ›

HELP!

Submitted by Kathy (not verified) on Sat, 2011-07-09 23:39.

Can anyone tell me how to decontaminate my environment after a high dose of radioactive iodine is ingested by me to kill my aggressive thyroid cancer??!! I am having no luck in finding a way to clean up my radiation! Luckily I found out my preferred clean up method BLEACH would make the radioactive iodine airborne & even more dangerous! Please help! I'm having this treatment in 3 days....Tuesday July 12,2011. How can I protect the mattress my kids like to cuddle up in? The remote, the surfaces I come into contact with! PLEASE HELP ME PROTECT MY KIDS &YOU! The doctors are very laid back about it! But, my Father died from thyroid cancer when he was 34, back in 1977. Gee wiz, he had radioactive iodine too! You do the 'math'!
Sincerely,
Kath

Please listen to your doctors

Submitted by bandstra on Thu, 2011-07-14 12:48.

Dear Kath,

I hope your procedure went well the other day. Your radiologists and oncologists know a lot about radiation dose and its health effects on you and other people, and I would listen to them. If they are not concerned, then you should not be concerned. I do hope that everything goes well.

Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

No, I-131 only from Fukushima

Submitted by bandstra on Tue, 2011-05-17 19:38.
Iodine-131 is the radioactive isotope of iodine being referred to here. It has an 8-day half-life, meaning that if you have some amount of the isotope, that amount decreases by half every 8 days. I-131 decays to stable Xenon-131. Too many half-lives have passed since Three Mile Island (roughly 1,500) and Chernobyl (roughly 1,100) for any amount of I-131 to still be around. The source of the isotopes we are measuring must be Fukushima. You can see from our plots that the amount of I-131 is indeed decaying away down to zero:
I131 Air Activity
That being said, I-131 is used in medical applications and therefore may be occasionally present in the environment from that use. Mark [BRAWM Team Member]

Thank you Mark!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2011-05-17 20:52.

Mark, thank you so very much for the "sanity check."

I have to say that the above "explanation" by the radiation specialist, plus several additional comments made by that specialist (see below), convinced me not to use that (well known, well-respected) lab for any testing that I may decide to do (I have a California Ag crop).

Several times, I said to this radiation specialist, "BUT radioactive iodine has an 8 day half life, so when it was found in US rain after Fukushima, isn't it logical to conclude that it came from Fukushima?"

And the specialist kept insisting that it could still be the result of the ongoing decay of radioactive particles from Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and past bomb tests. I said, "You mean that newly measured levels of radioactive iodine in rainwater could be the result of some ongoing criticality from these past disasters?" And she clearly said, "Yes," and went into some measure of explanation as to how this could happen, so I could not have misunderstood her.

The specialist also had no idea how any lab could discern that any specific radioactive particle came from Fukushima; claiming that there was no way that that could be determined. That is, that there were no such things as "signatures" that could identify the source of any radiation (Is this true? It seems to me that the BRAWM team HAS been able to make logical identification as to the Fukushima source in some cases).

Finally, the specialist stated that Plutonium could not possibly make it very far beyond where it was released, claiming that it has a "strong affinity for silica." Hence, it will just "fall on a rock and stick there." (Gee, I sure hope that THIS IS TRUE!), and that Plutonium is an Alpha, Beta and Gamma emitter (Is this true, not only an alpha emitter?)

Lastly, the specialist stated that no active rods had been ejected, and if any rods had been ejected, they were spent fuel rods and, therefore, did not present much of a danger.

Finally, the specialist mentioned that (the specialist) had not been following the situation at Fukushima very closely as it, "Presents no danger to us here in California." (Of course, we all hope this is true!)

So, despite the reputation of this lab, I just don't have a sense of confidence in them. Would you agree?

The vast majority of us on this site are NOT nuclear engineers, and we shouldn't have to become amateur nuclear scientists to get answers like, "Do I have a cesium (or ?) problem on my land and on my crop?"

Most of us do not know where to turn for independent testing, if we decide to go that route, especially with the EPA pulling back. (Note: I am located in a place that the EPA has totally ignored!) And, when even a well respected and well-recommended lab gives answers like the above, well....it just all seems so insurmountable!

I am pretty sure that the BRAWM team is not allowed to recommend an independent lab. So, I will "put this out there" to the other Forum participants. 1. Have any of you done independent testing, or are you seriously considering it? 2. If so, what did you, or are you planning on, testing? 3. What did you, or are you planning on, testing for-be specific regarding which radioactive particles

I appreciate the sanity

Submitted by tjaucott on Wed, 2011-05-18 08:35.

I appreciate the sanity check as well! I just wanted to address the one part about how we know it's from Fukushima, and not somewhere else. As you mentioned, the 8 day half life of I-131 is a big clue, since Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and past above ground tests happened too long ago. In addition, we see a strong time signature -- the levels peaked a week after when the releases in Japan occurred, matching about the time it takes the plume to come over the ocean. Finally, we're currently looking into the exact amounts of all the different isotopes, and we're matching them very closely to the amounts we'd expect from a reactor that has been running under the same conditions as Fukushima and then stopped reacting at the time of the earthquake.

Tim [BRAWM Team Member]

I have been thinking of how

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2011-05-17 21:07.

I have been thinking of how to do some more indepth observations myself.

Aware Electronics is a hobbiest-level manufacturer for detectors. Their claim to fame is the modularity of their instruments. I have the smallest detector, the RM-60. These counters can be connected to a PC to do time-based analysis and decay curve matching.

But, they also make a similar interface that talks to a scintillator PMT. I don't think the type of PMT matters as it had adjustable gain, but the software makes it pretty trivial to do spectral analysis.

If I was go get a functional used NaI PMT and use the existing RM-60 for background cancellation, I wonder how accurate of detections could be made. BRAWM team, any ideas?

My concerns regarding certified lab

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 2011-06-12 15:20.

Hi Adam,

Here are the posts that I mentioned...(You referred to me as the avo lady).