Patagonia
Hello does anyone want to re-locate share costs and expenses, and enjoy the shared experience. I want to move to Argentina or Chile, and want to find like minded people to help make this a positive experience out of a negative one. To escape what is coming down the pipe for the next 50 years and to breath fresh air.
Rare
.
This opinion and such choices will be extremely rare among the 20 year survivors of this nuclear disaster.
Many incautious Japanese are unlikely to live long enough to develop cancer. They will soon begin to 'crump' from a vast array of radiation related illnesses.
Acute radiation sickness and cancer are merely two points on the continuum of radiation induced maladies. This was observed following the Chernobyl disaster.
Quote Wind-blown radioactive
Quote
Wind-blown radioactive dust particles from the slime dams could also pose "significant radiation exposure" through inhalation or by contaminating agricultural crops, while cattle posed a serious problem because they churned up sediment loaded with radioactive elements and heavy metals in the waterways when they went into them.
This is a
Global issue in two years the southern hemisphere will have trace amounts of radioisotopes as well.u can run but u can't hide "Jimmy cliff"
I'm the OP
Hello,
I am the OP here, and I appreciate all the comments. I am still looking to move. I do believe that the SA people are not terribly full of hate, as some here have said. I have hope and look forward to finally getting down there to see for myself.
For the poster here that is moving in 30 days, I wish you all the best and wish I knew you, and could chat a bit online away from this site. Would you comfortable doing this via email ? Also thank you for sharing your input on others you have met along the way that have moved to S. America and do not regret it, it is so encouraging.
Warm Regards, please post again before you move !
email?
email?
Relocation of the wealthy....
I seem to remember -- and this was in the mainstream media, mind you -- that the Bushes purchased a home in South America about two of three years ago. It was put under the daughter's name so that no one would say our former President was hiding. I have NEVER seen anything about it since, and cannot even find it under news searches, so if no one here has ever heard of it, I understand my being attacked here....
I will, say, however, that a conservative friend from Virginia also told me a decade ago that a relative of his who works for a major intelligence agency there stated that he and other employees were also buying homes for their families in SoAm.
You can begin the attacks and flaming now, but as always I report only what I was genuinely told or read on mainstream, and these two pieces of information were presented as accurate and as though they were matter-of-fact. If anyone with genuine resources would actually like to try to actually check on these before attacking, that would be appreciated.
Paraguay, but the country passed an extradiation treaty with US
so the idea was, I think, nixed. My recollection is that Bushes were looking for a place with no extradition treaties in the event they were charged with crimes against humanity or crimes for torture etc.
Also, i think if you do some googling on this you will find issues related to the areas where there were large supplies of water to be commercially exploited.
I remember this but remember too when folks said, oh well, now that there is an extradition policy Bush can't be safe there.
Folks can retire to great places like Costa Rica and Belize if they can document their incomes (Costa Rica is an excellent place though I got the traveler's bug there eating fresh produce - but sheap medical clinic fixed us right up.)
The farther south, though, the safer from the nuclear plumes in the northenr hemisphere. I would love Patagonia, and Chile And Argentina are pretty hip countries nowadays with the fascists mostly gone...
I wish I couold aford to relocate with my family and had work there....
Re-location of the wealthy response...
Yes, you are correct that many elites have acquired land and properties in South America. I will not attack you for that statement as it is correct.
I can name names but would rather not be the whistle blower. I am not sure what their motives are for buying huge plots of land are. It could be for many political reasons, or more.
to clarify...
The friend from Virginia quoted his uncle as saying C.I.A. agents were "purchasing homes in (some SoAm country) because of (roughly) what will happen to the U.S. in the next decade." Something in what he said at that time made me think that this was economic in nature (not disaster-based), as if riots etc. over economic policies were to be the cause.
Again, this clearly can be labeled as heresay more or less, but I always remembered it since it sounded so dark and ominous. I mention here since it seems so appropriately ironic now.
Please help...
Only the nuclear physicists know for sure what to do. Will have to trust their knowledge.
(I hope I don't end up like Zardoz)
Thank You, Berkeley. I for one will keep reading your forum.
Reply to you can run...
Oh man, you are right.
But why does running feel safer ? A human response I suppose.
Escapeartist.com and a few tips..
You might want to check out http://www.escapeartist.com/ Your idea of visiting for an extended stay before such a drastic move is wise. Bear in mind though that many countries have diseases that are native to the areas such as hemmorrhagic fevers that can kill you within a few hours or days simply because there is no vaccine or cure, parasites with long incubation periods such as Chagas disease, filaria and malaria just to start with a few along with rabid bats that come out at dusk in many countries to suck the blood out of cattle, animals and possibly you!
Also, many lack potable water so unless you have the funds to have your own filtration system good luck with single celled organsims such as cryptosporidium and amoebas...
PS:I recall that many of the countries my father would be tasked to fly to prior to retirement all crew were advised to eat only fully cooked foods and no raw salads or vegetables to prevent the chance of contracting various diseases or parasites. There's a book called 'Guess What Came to Dinner' that goes into some detail about diseases people contract through food and travel if you're interested in finding out more.
~Off my menu: All Seafoods because the oceans really are a military and industrial sewer! Yes, I will miss Anchovies on my pizza, fishsticks, red snapper, tuna (even 'chicken of the sea' is no longer 'worthy,'crab, fake crab (made with Pollock, an ocean fish), clam chowder, Nori Seaweed,Caviar etc... See: http://pstuph.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/can-ocean-currents-transport-radi...
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/3486
BRAWM Info., Common Sense, Medical Awareness and Staying Informed...
Suspect Seafood
I also refrain from eating seafood although I luckily was never fond of much of it anyway,so it's less of a loss to me than to many others taking protective measures. I had learned years ago while serving on a US Destroyer from crew members who'd served aboard nuclear submarines & nuclear-powered aircraft carriers that the US and Soviet Union had routinely dumped high-level radioactive materials into specific areas including off of Japan and also in the Atlantic Ocean and that the practice continued for many years until ceasing in the last decade. It seems to me that long-lived radiological bio-accumulation has been a generally un-reported concern before 3/11/2011 and a threat to marine life & food chain made worse by Fukushima discharges. Considering the shady,underhanded crap that was commonplace during the Cold War-I'd assume the USA & USSR have probably both "dumped their loads of nuclear sh_t in each others backyards" & very likely included intentional dumping in each others territorial fishing waters as well. I'm curious to see what the impact will be on the "Deadliest Catch" series & the Alaskan crab fishing industry given the nature of the contaminants-which seem to craete "hot spots" and possibly accumulate on the sea floor where the crabs travel en mass? I'm kinda disgusted when I think of all the marine life being destroyed,mutated or fed on!! Then they really put the fecal icing on the cake by throwing a bony,bearded,7ft. long turd called Bin Laden into the toxic cesspool that even Jacques Cousteau wouldn't dive into now!!LOL-seriously though,I am very concerned about what the impacts will be of all the crap from BP and TEPCO & years of discreet dumping of all the crap that wasn't reported because it wasn't associated with disasters or known issues that attracted attention??!!-I guess time will tell the answer to that question of concern...depressing sh_t...
I'm sorry, but...
THIS IS CRAP.
I am, among other things, a former Chief Petty Officer of the U.S. Navy who spent his active duty time in-service aboard nuclear-powered Fleet Ballistic Missile submarines (SSBNs) and fast-attack boats (SSNs) during the '90s. And I can tell you, TO A CERTAINTY -- NO boat of the U.S
Navy EVER dumped coolant into the open sea. Now, the Soviets had some real mishaps from time to time, and we DID lose two nucs in the '60s -- the THRESHER, and the SCORPION. But we NEVER needed to dump coolant like that. Bilging aside, we DID NOT treat the open sea as if it were a toilet -- if for no other reason, then because, from an operational perspective, it would have been VERY unadviseable, to a fleet that prizes stealthiness and undetectability above ALL other considerations.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
HotCaviar, you are so well
HotCaviar, you are so well informed. Do you have a blog I could visit for more information?
RE:: You are so well informed. Do you have a blog?
HotCaviar, you are so well
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2011-05-13 20:13.
HotCaviar, you are so well informed. Do you have a blog I could visit for more information?
A: Sorry, no blog but due to family hardhip (business failure and economic loss) and change of plans I am a compulsive self educator (and consequently, like a brain challenge now and then through puzzles, games/chess etc.) reading online and purchasing books constantly wherever and whenever I can including thrift shops, used book stores, garage sales, online bookstores, campuses etc.
I was compelled to enter the workforce as a real estate licensee since the age of 19 foregoing the original path to education in the sciences at UC Davis or UCLA that my high school counselors at Monte Vista High School envisioned for me.
I think my compulsive self education borne of chronic curiosity about 'how stuff works' allows me considerable versatility in having friends and working with clients across a broad range of educational backgrounds in addition to the ongoing self enrichment which I heartily encourage anyone to engage in since it is available whether or not you can pursue a formal education and it can be alot of fun!
~Off my menu: All Seafoods because the oceans really are a military and industrial sewer! Yes, I will miss Anchovies on my pizza, fishsticks, red snapper, tuna (even 'chicken of the sea' is no longer 'worthy,'crab, fake crab (made with Pollock, an ocean fish), clam chowder, Nori Seaweed,Caviar etc... See: http://pstuph.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/can-ocean-currents-transport-radi...
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/3486
BRAWM Info., Common Sense, Medical Awareness and Staying Informed...
Post of hot caviar
Yes you have some points but Chile does not have "as many" of those third world diseases and or parasites that you mentioned.
I already considered those with initial research on where to run to !
LOL. Trying to scare him out
LOL. Trying to scare him out of saving his life?
Indeed, the window is
Indeed, the window is closing. Those who want to live have precious little time remaining to escape the exposed portions of the North. The crabs in the bucket too gutless to pack and up and go will doubtlessly be trying to discourage others from leaving them behind. But it is your life. Do with it as you will.
Indeed the window is closing
Yes, I know. Thank you. I would like to find some travel companion to come along at least for three months to try it out.
Patagonia
Well, it may come to that yet...
Patagonia
Yes, well why wait, for more radiation results, and mishaps, I think we might have a better chance at breathing and eating food that is less risky overall. I am serious in my search for people who want to re-locate. I have done some reading up on the subject and it is such a nice place to go to. We are in fact lucky that there are still some affordable, places to escape to that still have a clean environment. I feel very thankful for that. This is my way of funneling all the scary and toxic news brought on by Fukushima, to somehow make it a positive result. Guess what Chile does not have a single nuclear power plant ! Yippie !
Argentina has at least one
Argentina has at least one nuclear power plant. And there's a project of building some coal power plant in the Patagonia.
Chile has earthquakes. Have
Chile has earthquakes. Have you thought about Yuma, Arizona?
YUMA,AZ??!!
Just FYI-AZ is also home of possibly the worst of the US reactors presently being scrutinized by the NRC for safety violations & leaks,flaws & groundwater contamination and doesn't fit into "my" personal criteria regarding a "safe" area with abundant & clean food,water & available resources for the possibility of surviving this particular possible ELE. I'm not sure there's ANY place that is "safe" enuff to consider attempting to survive since the quality of life that would result from most of the "doomsday-scenario" type events that presently threaten mankind aren't likely to be restricted to the Northern Hemisphere anyway!!-I used to have this image of myself surviving various ExtinctionLevelEvent due to my military training,NBC warfare knowledge and quick-witted responses to solving problems such as emergency communications,water filtration,hydroponic & container gardening,etc.-due to my mechanical & electronics aptitude,Ham radio,firearms,etc.,etc.-But that was before I realized I'd also overlooked one crucial element during my meticulously detailed disaster planning!!=If the results of just one multi-reactor nuclear power facility have resulted in ANY amount of their radioactive contents even being detected at all over 5,000 miles away from the release point can have so much impact on life-"then what kind of~life~and how long & how much suffering would result if/when there's nobody manning the 100+ nuclear reactors nation-wide & globally following any event that results in those facilities being abandoned & also going critical & melting down simultaneously??!! Therefor I've concluded that the continuing presence of anything nuclear that relies on human interaction will continue to make the odds of survival "0" since there's so many threats to society,the economy,the environment,etc. that otherwise would reduce human population local to the event & drastically alter life & civilization,society-but when the untamed & horribly toxic nuclear technology is out of control as a result??!!=FUGGEDABOUDIT!!!-GAME OVER....
Yuma has earthquakes, too!
Yuma has earthquakes, too! I went to Algodones, Mexico across the border from Yuma and experienced quite a bit of shaking one day. Seriously, there is no safe place on earth. The only safety is in your own spirit. None of us will leave this so-called reality alive.
Language could be an issue
Language could be an issue if you don't speak Spanish...
Yes indeed language could be
Yes indeed language could be an issue. I am crash coursing Spanish already ! Hhhmm all the time spent researching safe food, and ways to avoid the air we breath, might be harder than mastering Spanish, just a thought.
Why not Australia?
Why not Australia?
Why not Australia
Australia has very strict guidelines for long term stays, and Australia is also very expensive. I do believe S. America is a much more appropriate option and is more interesting culturally as well, plus who can deny the rich fertile landscapes of Southern Chile or the Lake District of Chile. Plenty of fresh seafood, or fresh water fish, and plenty of fresh produce and very very clean air.
If you are not a Argentina
If you are not a Argentina or Chile citizen you can only stay there for a limited time of period ( 3months?). Also you can not work there.
Are you sure? I read about
Are you sure? I read about the working visas. And also about retiring there. I think it is possible to work out the details if you want to move there.
Yankee go home
Yankee go home
Yankee go home
inappropriate comment
Not so inappropriate when
Not so inappropriate when you consider this - when the money runs out...you run out of friends.
Hhhhmmm there is a lot to
Hhhhmmm there is a lot to consider. True, Argentina does have one small nuclear plant but if you live in Chile the beautiful Andes Mountain range serves as buffer, and the winds flow the opposite direction. Any-hoot, I do believe one plant is better than where we sand now with Fukushima and our own plants in the US. I do admire those that study this energy and the engineering group that have made it possible to somewhat view our current risks. Just thought I would toss the idea out there for those who can get away, and are looking for simple and clean living. Perhaps you might want to come along and share the experience. Also, most of the mines are in the North, and do not effect the Southern region of Chile. So if anyone is interested lets chat about it and discuss here.....
Thank you Berkeley team for an outstanding job !
South America Expatriation
Fukushima was the last and most serious straw for us. Being in the direct line of fallout fire (SoCal) finally motivated us to seriously consider repatriation. We have done exhaustive research and found that a lot of folks from the US and Europe (and Aus) have been moving to SA for a few years. Yes, many have plentiful assets to do so. Others we've befriended are "regular" folks who felt it was more important to have a healthy and safe life with their families, sold their assets and took the plunge. I so admire their courage, and it seems to have paid off for them, because I've yet to encounter anyone with regrets. Were they scared to make such a huge move? They sure were and freely admit it. But they all seem very content now with a simpler lifestyle and peace of mind. One circle of expats said they have "hope" again. And I repeatedly heard a good point: people have been immigrating to other countries since forever to improve their quality of life and/or flee oppression. Our relatives did so when they came to the US, right? Most of them without a penny to their names.
For those interested, there is a heck of a lot of expat info online. There's even rankings of the "best" countries to go to, using criteria such as personal freedom, economic stability, corruption / police state, crime, healthcare, etc.
Top picks for SA: Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Ecuador, Brazil. (not necessarily in order, just a list) Each has it's own pros and cons - it's an individual choice.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not pushing this on anyone, just presenting some thoughts and information after literally months of day and night research, discussions with expats, discussions with "natives", and house hunting trips to SA. We've really done our homework and will be leaving within 30 days. We found several great areas in different countries to live, with lots of expats and expat orgs and activities (to ease the transition, not to isolate ourselves), great food and wine, great healthcare, close to a church of our faith, safe, and lots of personal freedom. It was hard to choose!
We lived briefly in SA years ago, giving us an advantage re: culture - slower pace, shorter working hours, families and friends are highest priority, more so than work (as reflected in their GDP's) but I'm telling ya, they are much happier there. You have to be willing to adapt to the slower pace - that's usually the biggest hurdle for North Americans. Europeans seem to adapt very easily.
If you are considering this, just know you are not alone. Check out the expat sources online - some are better than others - and there are good forums like this one, that you can search or ask questions. It's where you will get a real feel and most of your info. Pull up a map in another browser window and begin learning the areas of discussion. Get a good spanish course online and start listening while you read the forums, work around the house, etc. Rocket Spanish is terrific and free.
You'll be surprised at what you discover - there's way too much misinformation and ignorance about a lot of SA countries.
After conquering our initial fears about such a huge decision, we are now very excited to be embarking on a great new adventure. Once you start the ball rolling, you realize it's quite do-able. It just takes careful planning and research. We haven't been this genuinely happy in years. I think it's the relief that we're shedding so much worry about health and the economy, and the resulting consequences of both.
Bottom line: google "Normalcy Bias" - it is our worst enemy.
Also, google "Making the Chicken Run". (for info purposes only)
Last, but far from least, thank you to the Berkeley team. I echo all the sentiments of gratitude and respect for your tireless efforts to keep us informed and answer our questions.
The real worry is not about
The real worry is not about health or the economy, it is about the destruction of our planet and all its diverse and beyond description life as it has evolved over billions and billions of years.
However, this is a very good
However, this is a very good posting and a good contribution. Congratulations for having the courage to vote with your feet.
I've been perusing South
I've been perusing South American real estate for a month, but my husband is not interested because he considers himself lucky to even have a job in the states. We just can't afford to move there--it's not that cheap--it's about the same as washington state, where I live. However, we both agreed that if we win the lottery we will head on down to the southern hemisphere--perhaps New Zealand.
i've been pursueing South
Yes it is good to look into it. My significant other also feels the same he is lucky to have a job here in the US. After reading the current blogs about Fukushima's number 1 and 4. I feel the need to go even sooner. He will stay here, until it gets really bad then come join me. We can save money by going one at a time. Chile is safe, and a good place to go. New Zealand is difficult to be able to stay as a resident. I wish you the best and lets hope for the best for Japan's sake and all living creatures. Check the Pucon region of Chile for listings very nice by the lakes and quite affordable.
My take is that you can
My take is that you can return to the USA once the fallout has worked itself through the food chain and is effectively "contained" at the top within human beings. Not the most pleasant way to think of it, but the reality as far as I envision it.
My take is...response
Sadly yes your take is in fact the most realistic take. Yes it will come to that. I am sure but I will try to go South for as long as I can first. In the end no one escapes this planet alive. At least I will have seen the Andean Mountain range and breath some last breaths of fresh air before all the Fukushima cancers takes over. Sad and scary.
On the Beach
On the Beach, starring Gregory Peck -----sooner or later, it will reach all parts of the world.
Get a grip people!!
LMAO!!- C'mon,really now people?!!- Comparing this issue to an old-ass movie? How does "On The Beach" help anyone educate themselves deal with this situation in any way??!! I must've missed the credits,etc. where they announced it was the follow-up to "Duck & Cover" & the other Cold War civil defense documentaries back in the day!! ATTENTION EVERYONE: Stop researching nuclear-related information & cease useless protective measures & instead enlist in the Navy for duty aboard a nuclear powered submarine to begin fleeing the encroaching radiation & find an uncontaminated tropical paradise to continue efforts to complete fulfilling "bucket list" objectives!!LOL!!
ROTFL!
I gotta admit -- It's occurred to me quite a bit, lately, that I'm probably receiving FAR more radiation, NOW, as a nub civvie, than I EVER received on-board ship... A fairly surreal realization for a guy who wore dosimeters for a fair number of years.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
on the beach
Saw pieces of it on You Tube very scary indeed, chilling tale.
Romani ite domum
Romani ite domum
Total misconception
Your comment is completly incorrect. I am personally very familiar with people in various countries in south america from years of business travel and living there. Fortunately, they do not hate foreigners. You betray an ignorance of their cultures - not sure what your agenda is, but don't act like an ugly american.
Ever watch Chris Rock? He
Ever watch Chris Rock? He does a very telling bit about the Old Black Guy that everyone loved growing up. That janitor or doorman that was always cheerful and helpful. Chris smiles at the audience and says," Well - he HATES you." ANY group of people that the U.S. has historically taken advantage of is going to feel the same way. It will just be a matter of time until you realize - they HATE you.