The atomic elephant...
Tepco is admitting the release is out of control and the situation can not be resolved. I've read an estimate of nine months before they expect it to get better, whatever that means. What do you estimate the levels to reach globally? what is the worst case scenario if things deteriorate?


This thing has been out of
This thing has been out of control since day one. MSM has been "restrained" by order.
Its in the food chain. Its in us. I predict we are screwed
Please cite your references.
Please cite your references.
So, really? There will be
So, really? There will be FOUR actively-emitting-deadly-radiation, broken nuclear plants just continuing to ACTIVELY EMIT DEADLY RADIATION for...ever? How long? Months, years, decades? I simply can not understand why more people (in Japan and worldwide)are not concerned/outraged/terrified by this...and why they aren't expressing it via every method of communication available to human beings! Internet, telephone, rooftops, etc. It's seemingly not acceptable yet I am not seeing the reactions that represent this opinion. I don't get it.
Re: So, really? There will be
In reply to the below:
To quote what Sir Winston Churchill said on one occasion (I only know the quote) the answer to the below from him that very likely applies today:
'There is no public opinion, only published opinion.'
At least here via the Internet we have a level of freedom that the fifth estate (the media) only variably or does not provide and people can communicate here and by smartphone.
-Off my menu: All Seafoods because the oceans really are a military and industrial sewer! Yes, I will miss Anchovies on my pizza, fishsticks, red snapper, tuna (even 'chicken of the sea' is no longer 'worthy,'crab, fake crab (made with Pollock, an ocean fish), clam chowder, Nori Seaweed,Caviar etc... See: http://pstuph.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/can-ocean-currents-transport-radi...
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So, really? There will be
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 2011-04-23 15:54.
So, really? There will be FOUR actively-emitting-deadly-radiation, broken nuclear plants just continuing to ACTIVELY EMIT DEADLY RADIATION for...ever? How long? Months, years, decades? I simply can not understand why more people (in Japan and worldwide)are not concerned/outraged/terrified by this...and why they aren't expressing it via every method of communication available to human beings! Internet, telephone, rooftops, etc. It's seemingly not acceptable yet I am not seeing the reactions that represent this opinion. I don't get it.
Things seem to be going in
Things seem to be going in the right direction, so I don't understand why you are terrified. It seems that TEPCO is making progress. We have come a long way since the crisis peaked. Levels in Berkeley/California are improving. Power has been restored to the complex. TEPCO is spraying and injecting fresh water for cooling. They are using nitrogen to reduce the chances of another explosion. Some of the control rooms are operational. TEPCO is getting more information on the status of the reactors, etc,etc.
Is it perfect?: no. Should we be concerned and watch the situation?: yes. Could bad things happen?: Yes. But, things are moving in the right direction, so why be terrified?
Read up situation is a mess !!!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870338790457627851172346209...
progress a piece of rubble was emitting 900 mlsv Take a look .hard to fix something when it's unaproachable
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/24_01.html
You are being quite
You are being quite misleading. The first article you posted is about Tokyo taking over PR functions from Tepco. This is a good thing as there will be a single source of information instead of the wildly conflicting data currently.
The second article does talk about very radioactive debris, and HOW IT WAS SAFELY CLEANED UP. That really doesn't give any credibility to your argument about it being unapproachable. While true that the reactor buildings are still very dangerous, work is proceeding and that is the true sign that this disaster will be conquered, despite your negative prognostications.
Facts
The effort, however, is being made difficult by two problems: Radiation levels within the damaged reactors must be lowered to allow workers to carry out tasks and it must find ways to process contaminated water generated as a result of cooling.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870356740457628100049040664...
Hmm same as three weeks ago
And the plan there is not to
And the plan there is not to enter the area around the buildings until the radioactive water is treated.
Three developments are taking place that you are neglecting to mention.
* Japan has asked Areva to supply a (or possibly several) external water decontamination units that can act as external cooling as well. The goal is to treat the core water in situ and recirculate it without the aid of the primary cooling pumps. This would allow the water in the cores to be reused and cooled more effectively, bringing control and shutdown quickly.
* Russia has dispatched a floating decontamination facility, that was built in Japan, that is used for decontaminating old nuclear subs. This is to help remove radioactivity from water in the turbine buildings and around the plant grounds.
* A floating storage tanker is being deployed at the shore to house very radioactive water that is being pumped from the site. Coupled with the decontamination plant, the resulting water can be discharged cleanly into the ocean and they can continue to pump water out of the plant.
Once the water is reduced the radiation around the plant will drop and it may be possible to start entombing the cores.
Yes, to me that looks like progress.
NONE of this is progress,
NONE of this is progress, this plan should have been made before they ever built the reactor.
Interview
I am glad ur optimistic I however am not .we read different media do u respect DR. MICHIO KAKU if u do please read this interview.
http://www.democracynow.org/seo/2011/4/13/expert_despite_japanese_govt_c...
Democracy Now/Dr. Kaku
There is an error in your link. Here is correct link for Amy Goodman's interview of April 13 with Dr. Michio Kaku:
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/13/expert_despite_japanese_govt_claim...
Actually I think Mr. Kaku is
Actually I think Mr. Kaku is quite knowledgeable, but an alarmist.
Japanese robots await call to action
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423f1.html
clear to u yet ?
I don't quite understand if
I don't quite understand if you are for or against your own hypothesis.
This article talk about robot that will assist in the clean-up. Again, this is a good thing as the faster it is cleaned up, regardless of what (human or robot) moves the debris, the faster this will be over.
Thanks for disproving your own argument and helping us out!
"Thanks for disproving your
"Thanks for disproving your own argument and helping us out!"
Who is "us"?. You and the other stockholders? The rest of the sock puppets?
Sure, whatever makes you
Sure, whatever makes you happy.
What would make me happy is
What would make me happy is if you would tell me who "us" is?
Lol
Lol I was pointing out plants reactors were unapproachable by humans...
And this how reactor team let pressure soar leading to explosion
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870392250457627323411089618...
I guess ignorance is bliss though...
The theme of this article
The theme of this article basically states that because TEPCO was very sensitivity to the release of radiation that they delayed the venting of steam from the primary coolant loops (containing water), most likely to debate the consequences. Once you begin to release steam from the primary you would have some release of radioactive gasses but, you would also release pressure. This release of pressure would allow more water to convert to steam effectively cooling the reactor fuel. Without the cooling in the first 12 hours, the temperatures could reach values where fuel elements could crack and release even greater amounts of fission products and partial meltdown becomes more probable. Obviously, these are very hard decisions and I'm sure this one went to the very top of the Japanese government. Considering the aftermath of the earthquake included aftershocks of 7.0 and greater and many other issues relating to communication, the delay is understandable. I don't know the exact sequence of events yet, so this is just an educated guess: since the fuel got much hotter than expected, once venting occurred parts of the zirconium cladding became uncovered from water and exposed to steam. At these high temperatures, a chemical reaction with the zirconium metal with steam produces zirconium oxide (ZrO2) releasing hydrogen gas. This gas collected in the reactor secondary containment building producing the explosion once exposed to a spark. This is what occurred. The explosion(s) was not caused directly by the high pressure buildup, but rather indirectly from the delay in cooling by the venting process...at least this is what this article tends to point to.
What the article implies is that the real cause of this delay in venting is the public fear of radiation which produced officials being reticent in making this decision in an expeditious manner. In my opinion, these types of complex decision-making dynamics rarely are so one-dimensional.
Reference on ZrO2 + Steam:
High-temperature oxidation of zircaloy-2 and zircaloy-4 in steam
V.F. Urbanic and T.R. Heidrick
Journal of Nuclear Materials
Volume 75, Issue 2, August 1978, Pages 251-261
Abstract: At temperatures above the transformation temperature for zirconium alloys, steam reacts with ?-Zr to form a superficial layer of zirconium oxide (ZrO2) and an intermediate layer of oxygen-stabilized ?-Zr. Reaction kinetics and the rate of growth of the combined (ZrO2 + ?-Zr) layer for Zircaloy-2 and Zircaloy-4 oxidation in steam were measured over the temperature range 1050–1850°C. The reaction rates for both alloys were similar, obeyed parabolic kinetics and were not limited by gas phase diffusion. The parabolic rate constants were consistently less than those given by the Baker and Just correlation for zirconium oxidation in steam. A discontinuity was found in the temperature dependence of both the reaction rate and the rate of growth of the combined (ZrO2 + ?-Zr) layer. The discontinuity is attributed to a change in the oxide microstructure at the discontinuity temperature, an observation which is consistent with the zirconium-oxygen phase diagram.
the more i learn about how
the more i learn about how nuclear reactors work and how they can be messed up the more I am disgusted that the nuclear industry is playing with our lives.
They should all be put behind bars.
I completely agree
I completely agree
Thank you for your quite
Thank you for your quite honest and sane view of the situation.
Yeah, they have the lights
Yeah, they have the lights on in the control room. They are making sooo much progress. They got the lights on no more flashlights (penny pincher TEPCO must not reimburse for batteries). Still spraying and injecting fresh water into a cracked reactor. Yippie I am so happy I am delirious. Shill
It's pretty obvious the
It's pretty obvious the situation is deteriorating. This will go on for a very long time and no one is trying to deny it so what happens in the long run? Has anyone here talked about the projected levels a year or two years from now? I'm only interested in what the berkeley team thinks about the levels we can expect in the long run if the they are not able to control the releases.
How is it obvious that the
How is it obvious that the situation is deteriorating?
and I was referring to
and I was referring to michio kaku