A nuclear/medical physicist's opinion
Hello all,
I saw this on the BBC's web site and thought I would share it with the forum here, as many people have been asking for a medical or health physicist's take on the radioactive fallout from Fukushima.
This article is by a nuclear and medical physicist from the University of Oxford:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12860842
It's an interesting view--I'd be curious to know others' reactions.
The unseen nuclide ingested
The unseen nuclide ingested or inhaled and lodged in lungs or anyplace else within the body will continuously emit gamma rays until it has gone completely through its decay cycle to some other stable element. This is the main reason changes to cells resulting in both benign and malignant growths (Cancers) occur when they are in contact with a radionuclide.
Radionuclides have various half lives and lengths of time before they have completely decayed to a stable and non-radioactive form. Strontium 90, Cesium-137 and I-131 are among the more well known ones responsible for leukemias as are others. Already detection of as many as 14 radioactive elements (including Plutonium)from Fukushima into the immediate environment and already, the Air and Sea which are shared by the world and all life that resides therein.
Don't think for a minute that there won't be numbers of individuals and other living things that contract neoplasms (Cancers)that they otherwise might never have before from ingesting, contacting or breathing these radioactive elements irrespective of whether it is one molecule or many millions.
Off the Menu due to release of Plutonium and other radionuclides into the Ocean: All seafood including Fish Sticks, Sushi and Caviar
Here was one of the
Here was one of the reactions:
http://counterpunch.org/busby03282011.html
Great Read! Thanks for the
Great Read!
Thanks for the link.
He's not a doctor, but a cheer leader (shill)
I found this post on a Huffington post story:
"Wade Allison is a nuclear physicist. HE IS NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR AND HAS NO FORMAL MEDICAL TRAINING WHATSOEVER.
"His well documented views are those of a nuclear cheerleader or propagandist. This should not surprise anyone as he has devoted his life to nuclear physics. As far as health implications of nuclear energy are concerned - that topic should be restricted to medical health professionals - not nuclear particle physicists."
He cites a UN report saying there were only 15 deadly cases of childhood thyroid cancer after Chernobyl and fewer than 50 deaths.
But a recent publication by the NY academy of sciences on Chenrobyl mortality found close to 1 million deaths since that disaster caused BY the radiation. The NY Academy of DSciences study was based on a review of 5000 scientific studies in Eastern Europe, mostly from Slavic countries, recently translated.
I think this idiot is a selfpromoting shill. Not a doctor but an opportunist trying to sell his book which is not sound science nor is it in accord with any rational scientific opinion.
On a side note I also found this:
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110328-00000135-jij-soci
translation:
"The National Police Agency announced that it gave up transportation of a man’s body found in Okuma-town, Fukushima prefecture within 10km from Fukushima No.1 (Dai-ichi) NPP. The body showed such a high level radioactive contamination that there is no way to carry it. There is possibility that more bodies are left in this 10km area. The agency says it has to plan “a measure to counter this”. The agency says the man's body was found by the Fukushima Prefectural Riot Police men and others who had been informed of it, in the open lot of a work shop 5 to 6 km from the nuclear plant. The surface of the body counted radioactivity level of “over 100,000CPM(count per minute) ” for which a whole body decontamination is required. There is possibility that while carrying it, the body will contaminate the men at work. The agency gave up moving the body because it will contaminate the recipients and the surroundings, too. The body is contained in a sack and laid in the nearby building for the time being."
This is on Japanese Yahoo news. I will look for any other sources in English. WHY is this person dead? How did they die? HOW IN THE F8CK is their radiation so high? Scary as hell.
One final point: today NHK (Japan's National TV news station) reported that debris from the one of initial blasts at the plant blew radioactive debris 1 mile into the air and that Plutnium was found in dirt some 500 meters from Unit 1. That may well mean that the Plutnium was in this early blast and is ALSO now in the plumes raining down on my hometown right now outside my window.
Someone should point out
Someone should point out that MD's don't know much about radiation unless their also radiologists. Medical physicists are the people who write treatment plans and execute radiation procedures. Most medical physicists come from nuclear/particle physics backgrounds.
but he does cite the wrong
but he does cite the wrong study, a piece of whitewash fluff.
who let the dog out, who who
The New York Academy of
The New York Academy of Sciences article was found to contain no new scientific data. It also contained a statement basically stating that all correlations were taken to be causations, which is the complete opposite of a scientific study. The academy no longer even recognizes the article.
For the above comment that connects to a webpage with Chris Busby. I wouldn't use anything he says. He never publishes his results in peer-reviewed journals. Self publishing all his results with no fact checking and scientific examination does not add any credence to his results.
You are being deceptive. The
You are being deceptive.
The NYAS statement is below. It does not say they have withdrawn recognition of the paper. It does not say anything about correlations or causations.
Of course there is no new data. It is a study and translation of existing data.
http://www.nyas.org/publications/annals/Detail.aspx?cid=f3f3bd16-51ba-4d...
"Posted 4/28/2010
NEW YORK—“Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment,” Volume 1181 of Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, published online in November 2009, was authored by Alexey V. Yablokov, of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Alexey V. Nesterenko, of the Institute of Radiation Safety (Belarus), and the late Prof. Vassily B. Nesterenko, former director of the Belarussian Nuclear Center. With a foreword by the Chairman of the Ukranian National Commission on Radiation Protection, Dimitro M. Grodzinsky, the 327-page volume is an English translation of a 2007 publication by the same authors. The earlier volume, “Chernobyl,” published in Russian, presented an analysis of the scientific literature, including more than 1,000 titles and more than 5,000 printed and Internet publications mainly in Slavic languages, on the consequences of the Chernobyl disaster.
The Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences issue “Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment”, therefore, does not present new, unpublished work, nor is it a work commissioned by the New York Academy of Sciences. The expressed views of the authors, or by advocacy groups or individuals with specific opinions about the Annals Chernobyl volume, are their own. Although the New York Academy of Sciences believes it has a responsibility to provide open forums for discussion of scientific questions, the Academy has no intent to influence legislation by providing such forums. The Academy is committed to publishing content deemed scientifically valid by the general scientific community, from whom the Academy carefully monitors feedback."
Nonsense, the NYAcademy report reviewed 5000 studies
as for Busby, he CITES perr-reviewed studies to show that this guy is a moron.
I urge folks to read the articles and the NY study and judge for themselves.
The nuke industry is flailing and failing and will tell ANY lie to protect its profits and monopoly on energy and weapons globally. It is the most powerful industry in the world (because it controls all the nukes) and thus controls politics, media and can manipulate the whole show with propaganda.
Shills are shills.
pick a bale of cotton, pick a bale of hay
i agree.
i think you hit the nail on
i think you hit the nail on the head friend.
I have read articles and
I have read articles and watched Busby on the news. He says blatantly false statements that are not even true. I tend to trust a professor of physics at Oxford more than Busby. All of his work has been shown to be erroneous and lack any scientific backing. I haven't read the the academy paper, mainly because it costs $150. However, the 1000000 figure was shown to be completely false and lacks any scientific backing. People publish papers in non peer-reviewed sites all the time, doesn't mean they are correct. If they were correct I would be more worried about the dark planet causing another mass extinction.
pick a bale of cotton, pick a bale of hay
the UN also agrees with Busby, maybe you should do your homework.
who let the dog out, who who
Really?
Can you cite that?
Question: Would a reverse
Question: Would a reverse osmosis water filtration system remove any nuclear contaminants from the water? It would seem to me that a filtration system if it could remove it would then cause a concentration of the contaminant within the filtration system.
Thoughts?
This is a great question.
This is a great question. We've found that most of the contaminants are not elementally pure, but instead tend to be stuck to larger dust particles and big molecules. It's very likely that any sophisticated filtering processing, say reverse osmosis or even a charcoal filter (such as BRITA) would remove the contaminants along with the particulates it normally removes.
That said, this is the main reason why we haven't seen and don't expect to see significant levels of activity in the tap water. The water goes through many natural and man-made filters on its way from the mountains to our faucets.
Tim [BRAWM Team Member]
A lot of Bay Area water (and elsewhere) does not filter.
It's nice that YOUR water in Berkeley comes from the mountains and gets filtered during its long journey. Many of us here and elsewhere get our water from reservoirs which are nearby and made up of, guess what, rain water. Maybe you'd like to test some tap water from those sources or even directly from those sources. That would be a great service to the millions that use that type of tap water.
You know what? Check yourself. Now. And READ THIS.
What's up with the attitude, Anonymous? It's not as if the folks at Berkeley have a CHOICE in where their water comes from -- like you, and me, and everyone else, we're pretty much stuck with whatever municipal agreements and area resources and other access-impacting contracts and mechanisms exist in the specific place they live and work in. "MAYBE" YOU'D like to remember a few things before you start trying to guilt the BRAWM staff because (you assume) they have access to less-likely-to-be-contaminated water than you:
[1] The UCB Nuclear Engineering lab is under NO obligation to do ANY manner of independent testing of air, rain water, runoff water, tap water, milk, or food chain resources... MUCH LESS share that information, and their thoughts and hypotheses and conclusions about same, with the ENTIRE WORLD as they have been doing since pretty much Day Zero of this crisis. Matter of fact, I'm PRETTY sure some, even AT Berkeley, MIGHT just consider this to be a "waste", or at the least a misuse, of their FINITE RESOURCES, and that there will at some point be pressure exerted on them to scale back or even abandon this independent monitoring and testing altogether.
[2] The BRAWM staff are doing all this, AND everything else that they normally do, and, I'm willing to be, with virtually NO new infusions of qualified personnel, funding, OR equipment (though I may be wrong about that last). They would be perfectly within their rights if ALL they did was to test environmental media for their OWN peace of mind, to educate and forewarn and protect THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS ALONE. It's not like any of us, scattered across this and other countries, have been sending 'em cashier's checks to offset their costs or compensate them for what they are, remember, doing FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC AT LARGE and FREE OF CHARGE.
[3] Again -- They have FINITE RESOURCES, even during the BEST of times. And, I don't know if you've been keeping up, but: These aren't them. EVERY state-funded school, at EVERY level, is facing SUBSTANTIAL -- even, DRASTIC, in some cases DRACONIAN -- funding cuts, and FAST. These WILL affect the ability of departments to fulfill even their MINIMAL missions and obligations, let alone this initiative. Not to mention: It's getting on for late Spring. Know what that means on a college campus? People are scrambling for job placement, internships, and to take and pass finals. Some of the people attached to BRAWM may very well be thinking about how this ongoing event may change their future plans -- for example, whether they REALLY want to stay at Berkeley, which is on the North American continent's FRONT LINE of ongoing radiological dispersion, or go somewhere like, say, the University of Chicago, or MIT, or Princeton. They're living through this just like we are... EXCEPT they KNOW what they're dealing with, and are likely to continue to; AND they have taken on this responsibility of informing an ignorant and increasingly hysterical public about it; AND they are having to defend, every day, their scientifically based observations, interpretations and conclusions, largely to people like me who don't know cesium from shampoo; AND they're getting crap from you for not doing a thorough enough job and for being somehow magically protected against the fallout -- and, again, THEY'RE IN CALIFORNIA! Unbelievable.
[4] They're having a hard enough time trying to fulfill the initiatives they've already agreed to undertake, and to keep up with them, and to do their due diligence, and to post them in a timely fashion. For certain, they're doing a helluva lot better than, oh, let's say: THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, with all ITS resources and personnel and funding. AND they have to explain everything to us nineteen different ways before it sticks, AND they get argued with about everything, and told they're not considering this or that, or they face implications that they're only half-assed experts to begin with; AND THEY KEEP SHOWING UP, EVERY DAY, regardless. And you snipe at them for having cleaner water, as if they DESIGNED it that way, and bitch at them that they won't come all the way out to Greater Downtown Bumfuzzle and hold a cup under your faucet.
Look -- I've abused the time and distracted from BRAWM's efforts and clouded the waters as much as anybody, probably more so. And even I can admit: What they're doing,and doing WELL, is way, WAY beyond ANY expectation, demand, or guilt trip I could possibly feel justified in forcing upon them. You want local testing? Call up your area university or health services department, or your local water board, and start asking questions. Get your neighbors to do it. Start an E-mail chain letter. Pen a letter to the editor of your local paper. Get on talk radio. Contact the investigations reporters at your local affiliate. Call your Senators, your Congressman or -woman, your State Senator or Representative, your City Council, your Mayor. Start writing a blog. Start dedicating your FaceBook or MySpace page or your Twitter account or your YouTube Channel to running this down. Stand up at your burg's next open-attendance governance meeting and speak clearly into the microphone. Ask friends and family whether they know anybody with "pull". If we ALL -- myself included -- did that, and HAD been, instead of baiting and teasing and depressing and arguing and trying to one-up each other in this stupid Forum, maybe we'd BE seeing some sort of activity, by now.
And -- like I said -- that goes for ME, too. Me ESPECIALLY.
I understand you're frustrated, and maybe frightened, and completely off-balance with everything that's happening here. Like Kazoo -- of all people -- said a day or two back: (paraphrasing) "Hold on a minute, there. We're ALL IN THIS TOGETHER." Maybe it's time we all quitcher bitchin at each other all the time and start WORKING TOGETHER to LIGHT A FIRE and get these folks at BRAWM some friggin' HELP. (And I'd just like to say -- I am NOT the person to "lead", or whatever, that effort. I don't say this for personal or egotistical or self-glorifying reasons. But IT'S TIME TO START DEMANDING ANSWERS FROM OUR GOVERNMENT, OUR PUBLIC-HEALTH AUTHORITIES, OUR MEDIA AND OUR SCIENTISTS. And I'm tired of this doomsday circle-jerk, folks, I really really am. If this IS a potential danger, short- OR long-term, to the health and welfare and finances and stability and even the LIVES of us, our families and friends, our neighbors, and our country, then, for the love of God and humanity, PLEASE LET'S GET OFF OUR ASSES AND START DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, AND STOP JUST WALLOWING IN SUSPICION, FEAR, AND UNINFORMED SPECULATION. We all agree: There ARE people out there who actually know SOMETHING, right? ...Well, let's go find 'em.
If someone wants to start thinking seriously about this, and start putting together a PLAN OF ACTION we can ALL start working collaboratively toward fulfilling, I would LOVE to hear their thoughts, no matter WHO they are. And I actually have a thought about someone's input I would like: Kazoo. I hope you read this, partner. Again, I may not like you, and I probably never will -- but I'm more than willing to admit that WE NEED YOU. Perhaps not to lead, but certainly, with your critical / skeptical mind and ability to cut right to the heart of the matter, to opine and, perhaps, to focus. And I am eager to hear your & others' suggestions, and to start TAKING ACTION.
I would also like to hear from UCB Scientist, and Lisa, and Webworker, and many others.
I'm going to post this in a completely different thread, too. It won't be hard to find.
...You know, it's funny that this sort of thing might start here -- "at" Berkeley. Life is full of juicy ironies these days.
Oh -- one last thing. This may be my post, but this is WAAAY too important to be tripped up, misdirected or just plain FUBARed by someone as immediately emotionally compromised, to use a "Star Trek" phrase, as I am at the moment. The minute I become a distraction, is the minute I no longer serve any constructive purpose. If that happens, I ask to be told so, by E-mail or phone call if possible, but I'll listen no matter how that message is conveyed.
That's all I have to say about this. Now I want to "listen" to what YOU have to say. Thanks for reading this.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
RichardFCromackJr@gmail.com
972-746-8575
pick a bale of cotton, pick a bale of hay
and thanks one again for the *yawn* -fest, anonymous has every right to raise these concerns. obviously these simple ideas go way over your head, go somewhere else to play. and stop acting like a clueless and ignorant candyass. rofl.
i was going to say. not to
i was going to say. not to mention the chloramine problem here in many communities.
Citizens Concerned About Chloramine
Filtering water is a smart option to take...
An easy solution to filter water is what we use: standing water filters by PUR brand and a PUR brand faucet filter in the kitchen (important to use filtered water for brewing coffee too, you will never have a bitter cup this way!) We are looking for a nice shower head type.
No matter where anyone lives and despite water treatment, it is important to filter your own tap and cooking waters with filtration at the shower head a smart option to take to ensure a level of purity better than the local water authority any day of the week!
HotCaviar, thanks for the information...
...I installed a PUR water filter at the kitchen sink yesterday, and we are beginning to use that in conjunction with a Zero Water active-carbon / ion "pitcher" for drinking water.
If you have any advice on a "triple-threat" installed home system -- one that combines, if possible, reverse-osmosis or vapor-distilled, carbon filtration, and ion protocols -- and could post it here, I for one would be very appreciative!
Many thanks,
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
RichardFCromackJr@gmail.com
972-746-8575
listen to brawm
You may get out the radioactive particles but you'll still die years earlier from mineral depletion if that's your strategy. Activated carbon is plenty for now...
Hmmm...
...Something to think about, there. Many thanks for the Reply.
Rick Cromack.
Allen, Texas
RichardFCromackJr@gmail.com