Berkeley Disappointment
I have some knowledge of radiation exposure and radioactive uptake, but I'm no expert. I've read through a number of comment sections trying to get true data on california air quality. I am amazed at the utter lack of knowledge displayed by most posters in these forums. I am amazed that BHerkeley allows this trash to go on unchallenged. Might I suggest a STICKY message at the top of the forum list that expresses actuial data and the perspective of Berkeley's experts in the nuclear engineering department. At least then there would be a starting point for the discussion, based on some level of fact and scientific study results. Some of the commenters actually believe the radioactivity in the air has caused sickness and even unconciousness. Unbelievable level of ingnorance. I'm not saying these people are dumb, they are ignorant about radiation, radioactivity and the effect on people. Please provide the expertise I know you have and I have come to expect from such an agust school.
MEXT Data
*
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/
Monitoring information of environmental radioactivity level
Updates
October 21, 2011Reading of radioactivity level in drinking water by prefecture(be collected in October 20, 2011)
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/monitoring_by_prefecture_drinking_wat...
October 21, 2011Readings at Monitoring Post out of 20 Km Zone of Fukushima Dai-ichi NPP (18:00 October 21, 2011)
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/monitoring_around_FukushimaNPP_monito...
October 21, 2011Readings of Air Dose Rate in Fukushima Prefecture (18:00 October 21,2011)
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/monitoring_by_Fukushima_air_dose/2011...
October 21, 2011Reading of environmental radioactivity level by prefecture?14:00 October 21, 2011)
http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/en/monitoring_by_prefecture_environmenta...
Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT) 3-2-2 Kasumigaseki, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8959, Japan Tel : +81-(0)3-5253-4111(Reception)
Map
You're certain that
You're certain that radioactivity in the air did not cause any sickness?
You must be some sort of genius the likes of which this planet has never seen before. Please elucidate us about how you know this as a fact.
Idiotic posting are permitted here, hence yours is likely to remain.
Well I just read this whole
Well I just read this whole thread, this is 5 minutes of my life I will never get back. FAIL
What I was concerned about
What I was concerned about is happening. As word has gotten out about the good info provided by this site, trolls have now found it and using it for their own purposes from fear mongering to anti-government rants. I don't know if UCB has the manpower or time to moderate it, or find a way to stop the drumbeat. I hope UCB will continue to provide the testing info, whatever they decide to do regarding moderation or even turning off public commentary. All I want is that the data continue to be posted, I really don't care now about all the trash posts piling up, I'm not going to read them. I can find other information myself, and combine that with the UCB data to make decisions I think appropriate. UCB, please continue the data reports, do whatever you want to do on the public forum piece -- but, it is moving towards uselessness if it continues in its current mode of operation....
The forum is perfect the way it is
Even through so-called irrelevant posts, I've learned a thing or two or it's made me seek out an alternative answer where I've learned more.
Not everyone is a scientist. Most of us are not. And we're all learning by asking questions and reading the comments of others.
The best teachers will tell you that there's no such thing as a dumb question.
where is the data? i am
where is the data? i am looking for the actual, no frills, data.
The link to our main
The link to our main radiation monitoring website is here:
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/UCBAirSampling
Our data and spectra can be found on our various data pages, e.g., rainwater, air, and milk.
I noticed that we have not properly linked back to the main site, so I have added a sticky post to the forum with this information.
Mark [BRAWM Team Member]
I appreciate the Berkeley team's approach
though I too would prefer not to have to wade through the histrionic and political posts to find their comments. Nevertheless, the Berkeley folks continue to keep an even keel, posting when they have value to add. There's a lot of wisdom in that, for many reasons.
ignorance is by "experts" as well
People are posting "ignorant" questions here in part because they are being misled by ignorant "experts", either in the media or otherwise. We have multiple experts saying the opposite things. I think people trust the Berkeley crew for the most part and the debate and clarifications are very helpful. In fact if you read through some of the posts, the Berkeley crew has been challenged at a very technical level and they would otherwise not hear these kinds of challenges that have potentially great importance to their work and to all of us. So the so called "signal to noise" ratio is something we need to put up with because the signal part is still coming through. The alternative is only noise.
They are selective about what they respond to. You can skim and look for only their posts.
Wheat and Chaff
I am by no means saying silence ignorant ( lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified) people or commenters, rather I am saying the comments and responses of knowledgable people needs to be highlighted. The comments of the "ignorant" need to be refuted by expertise with scientific data. Ignorant is not a derogatory term. I am ignorant on the subject of medicine, rocket science and defeating viruses on computers, that doesn't mean I'm stupid. I have chosen other fields to learn details about. To leave these threads without moderation or refutation or even factual data, does a disservice to the goal of educating the public or the students of Berkeley. I have no doubt the expertise is there (at the school) to provide links and detailed scientific data to refute many of these bogus beliefs. I in no way desire to dampen public debate. I instead would prefer thst a school (especially at a university specializing in these areas) would provide a moderated or informed forum for discussing the issues of relevance.
You can put up with the
You can put up with the noise, but I'm not, and am nolonger participating.
The signal to noise ratio is
The signal to noise ratio is much to low at this point. I've given up on any discussion here of a scientific nature.
Every other person is freaking out or calling this a conspiracy, where none exist. When you present facts you are labeled a shill or part of the conspiracy. Nothing fact based seems to get through to this cohort and it has ruined this forum.
I would vote for Berkeley to either start moderating it more, or disallow anonymous posting and banning individuals that abuse the system.
Kudos to BRAWN for allowing the fee exchange of ideas
and for responding to all reasnable questions and concerns.
I feel like wasting energy banning or deleting topics or posts is not called for: they mostly get ignored (the adage do not feed the trolls applies). I would say this applies to those who would wish to silence anyone who is "on the fringe" (worried about illness, claiming a coverup, etc.)
Rational responses to any such claims calms fears and makes it clear that Berkeley cares and is being as open with their info as possible.
I, for one, watch this site regularly and find all of the folks here heroic in their efforts in very many ways.
This is a VERY serious situation, especially with current reports from Japan of the increasing risk for a hydrogen explosion which may rupture the core containment vessel (maning more plumes coming our way).
It is also stressful for all of us and I imagine for the BRAWN team who has been so responsive to all of us, even when the anonymous posters may seem a little loony. After all, frankly, it is the lack of data and accurate data from EPA, TEPCO, Japan, and other sites (or misleading info) which increases the anxiety and uncertainty and, yes, fear, of the worse case scenarios.
As a parent I applaud what you are doing hear and pray that you do not censor or otherwise obstruct the dialogues.
The best info wil rise to the top, and disruptive or off the wall posts from the far fringes (pro or anti-nuke) can be ignored if totally worthless.
THANK YOU BRAWN! Keep the faith and keep going!
We all love you folks for this.
As a parent...
All ideas are not created equal. To say: "As a parent I applaud what you are doing hear and pray that you do not censor or otherwise obstruct the dialogues.
The best info wil rise to the top, and disruptive or off the wall posts from the far fringes (pro or anti-nuke) can be ignored if totally worthless." is unscientific believing that all opinions are equal. As a parent of a 10th and an 11th grader, one had thoughts of attending Berkeley ( I am in CT but have relatives in CA). I had no faith in your liberal arts and generalized degree courses, but when my daughter expressed a desire to enroll for an engineering degree, I changed my tune. I had confidence in your engineering schools. The lack of data, fact and scientific concensus in this forum is an absolute disappointment. That other parent may want their children to be exposed to every opinion and foolish idea EQUAL to fact and scientific analyasis, I do not!! Science requires a detailed review of evidence, not opinion. I accept that different people reviewing the same data can come to some different conclusions, but it must be justified.
I never suggested deleting or censoring posts. I suggested highligting the facts, as known by the Berkeley staff and maybe pinning at the top some results from scientific studies and testing results that give a BASIS or starting point for the discussion.
The problem is that those of
The problem is that those of us who have knowledge and would like to participate find the forum to negative and hostile at this point. I certainly feel so.
And to the comment that the good information will rise to the top is probably not going to happen without some more moderation. I posted at trial analysis of cumulative cesium deposition that I wished the NUC folks to review fir accuracy and it was immediately buried by frantic posts by individuals, pushing it out of view.
Sorry, but it needs to be cleaned up more before I would post anymore scientific information.
Sorting and Posting and Such....oh, my
Agreed that it would be lovely to sort through the forum topics in some way. Maybe sort by poster name? Or have Berkeley team comments at top of page with all other posts down below? that said, such an option requires work to implement, and I'm not sure if anyone on their team has much time for such things.
That being said, I do have some friends who are Berkeley CS grads who would probably be thrilled to help out : )
Student Insight Needed
I have no doubt that some of the students would be enthused to be involved. They would learn much, with proper advisor assistance. This isn't "just a typical day. This is the largest release of radioactivity in at least 25 years!! Make a paper of it. Get involved. Apply critical thinking and the tools at your disposal to the task.
Public forums are never easy
Public forums are never easy to manage, and require a great deal of energy and time - energy and time that are better spent on other tasks.
The noise in the forum will subside sooner or later. Your posts are too strong, so I'd suggest you consider toning them down a bit. Voicing criticism the way you go about it never achieves anything.
After all, this forum is not out there to please you and only you, regardless of how knowledgeable you think you are. If you indeed are a scientist and an expert in the field, I'm sure the team would be more than happy to receive your scientific observations in an email.
You have nothing to worry
You have nothing to worry about from the strentgh oft posts. I'm taking my data and analysis elsewhere as I can't get a word in edgewise.
I will try to email them, as you suggest.
How hard is it...
for you to skip posts entitled:
"anybody got a stuffy nose? lighteaded?"
"For all Government lurkers"
etc?
That's why I do and I assume that's what the BRAWM team does as well. Yeah it's annoying but that's not a reason to get rid of the forum or get really upset about it and make threats about "taking your data and analysis elsewhere" right?
Not sure where you live, but if you've ever walked around the Berkeley campus for any period of time on any given day--even just going to a football game--you're bound to run into people screaming that the world is going to end. Some people have extreme views and express them...it's really not that hard to deal with though and I highly doubt the team will shut down the forum because of it. Even if they did then they'd still keep posting the data which is the most important part of this whole exercise. Plenty of people have expressed deep gratitude for the work being done here and in the end your posts aren't particularly constructive either.
The obvious trolls are
The obvious trolls are obvious.
The disappointment I have is that in an interesting-sounding thread that it devolves quickly to name calling and fighting.
I wish the forums had a better way to sort than simply by newest-first.
Fair points
Without more scientists/students/professors to respond to posts, it's certainly easier to flood the board with concerns.
Also at a point there's not much more to be said until the situation develops (although when we do learn of developments like seawater dumping it tends to lead to more concern, which I think is natural to a certain extent since the average person isn't used to hearing about things like dumping thousands of tons of radioactive waste into the ocean). Also the mainstream press reports aren't particularly reassuring w/r/t further deterioriation of the situation (see, e.g. http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed20110407a1.html).
Would be great if people self-selected in where they posted but without a moderator then we're on own to decide which comments to engage on.