Plutonium found on Fukushima plant grounds

Pu-238/239/240

Fukushima Daiichi Unit-3 (FDU-3) BLASTED plutonium 238 (AKA) Rocket Fuel CHUNKS over a radius of 20-30 miles from the plant. Other Fuel isotopes, including Plutonium 239 and Plutonium 240 were similarly blasted into the stratosphere and across the Northern Hemisphere.

The force of the ATOMIC BLAST in FDU-3 significantly exceeded the Chernobyl NPP in severity and global contamination.

The other dangerous fission products such as radioactive Cesium and Strontium are also scattered across Japan and beyond.

Quite devastating

It's hard to tell, but the

It's hard to tell, but the reporting sounds like the amount detected may be equivalent to fallout from atmospheric weapons tests over the last 50 years. I guess then, that it's possible (albeit suspect) that the plutonium was already there before the accident and only discovered because they were now looking for it.

The amounts are well known.

The amounts of Plutonium from the various sources are well known.

Mark of BRAWM has told us how much Plutonium was dispersed by the Fukushima accident ( along with the amounts of other fallout ) at:

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/5774#comment-21635

If you add up the total of the Plutonium isotopes; it's less than 2 grams

The amount of Plutonium due to the decade and a half of atmospheric nuclear testing by the USA and the Soviet Union is about 10 metric tonnes or 10 million grams. Courtesy of Clark University:

http://www.clarku.edu/departments/marsh/projects/community/plutonium.pdf

From page 5:

About 10 metric tons of plutonium were released into the atmosphere during these tests.

So the atmospheric weapons testing in the 1950s released about 5 million times as much Plutonium to the environment as did Fukushima. Fukushima made a relatively insignificant contribution to the Plutonium inventory of the global environment.

NOT

We had a nice LONG chat about this.

TEPCO diddled the data.

GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out)

Mark's dimensional analysis is utterly MEANINGLESS, when the DATA has been Diddled.

Tons and not grams

We WATCHED the Atomic Explosion in FDU-3. The Fuel Rods were blown SKY-HIGH.

The Japanese are LYING and the Japanese are DYING. The rest of the world is merely a spectator on this Japanese inter-squad killing game. It is a local sport.

In that respect it is somewhat like the Hutu/Tutsi killoff in Rwanda a few years ago. Perhaps, like in Rwanda, the initial intended victims will turn the tide upon their assailants. Perhaps not.

It is not our call.

BRAWM isn't relying on the Japanese

BRAWM isn't relying on the Japanese.

BRAWM is making its own measurements and extrapolating back to the source, as scientists around the world have done.

When a nation has an accident like Fukushima where they release radioisotopes into the atmosphere; they can't hide the magnitude of the release. They may have diddled the data they gave their own citizens; but they can't diddle the facts on the ground and in the air that are there for any scientist to measure.

NOT

RU STUPID, or what?

BRAWM is decidedly NOT cruising the Fukushima region.

BRAWM is absolutely NOT taking radioactive measurements in Japan

BRAWM is certainly NOT taking soil samples for Pu-238/239/240 in concentric circles

The what above is ... LIAR.

RU Stupid, a liar ... or both?

The magnitude of the release of Oil at the BP Macondo Well and the Fukushima Daiichi NPP campus are CLEARLY misrepresented. The difference is that BP and some individual players have been indicted and fined. TEPCO is still seeking additional government hand-outs.

BRAWM is measuring "downstream"...

One doesn't have to measure the radioactivity at Fukushima.

One can measure the radioactivity concentrations "downstream" of Fukushima and is "extrapolating back to the source" ( or did your limited reading comprehension skills miss the phrase in quotes above).

Measuring down stream and extrapolating back is a well grounded scientific method.

The non-scientists due to their lack of familiarity with scientific methods and processes may believe that measurements need to be taken at the site of the release. That ignorance is their problem.

For the rest of us, we can be assured that BRAWM is giving us accurate information, even if the anti-nukes don't like the accurate information.

UR a gawdamn idiot

Your pseudo-scientific drivel is wasted here. An engineering blog is not a proper forum for your dissembling arguments. Stick a probe up your fanny and measure the temperature of the sun, or the methane on Titan. It's easy, just extrapolate. You are such a gawdamn idiot.

Engineers KNOW what a proper data set requires.

The actual data was gathered in multiple, multiple counterparts; by the USA, TEPCO, Japan and the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty measuring stations.

The Japanese citizenry took their own measurements and mapped them. Third party NGOs have done the same. The official (partial) data sets have been diddled.

Simple as that.

Diddled Data

Just Extrapolate?

Just Extrapolate …

From: The Sunny Side of Uranus …

To: The Dark Side of Saturn’s 15TH moon

Never mind those discontinuities: http://rasnz.org.nz/SolarSys/12Orbits.shtml

What value did you extrapolate for the Methane content of Titan's Atmosphere?

UR Earth shatteringly stupid.

The anti-nuke doesn't know his / her science

The anti-nuke doesn't know his/her science. Let's see what REAL scientists are able to do:

https://str.llnl.gov/JanFeb12/sugiyama.html

Look at the figure of the NARAC model of the Fukushima plume.

Scientists can figure out where the material released at Fukushima goes, and how much ends up at a given location "downstream" or "downwind".

So if 0.01% or 1/10,000-th of the material ends up at the Berkeley campus where BRAWM measures it. So if BRAWM measures a radiation level for Plutonium that indicates the presence of 2/10,000-ths of a gram; they know from the plume model that they only intercepted 1/10,000-th of the total.

Therefore, based on their measurements, BRAWM can calculate how much was released at the source.

Once again, the anti-nukes demonstrate what clueless dolts they are.

They have no concept of what one can infer from using science. Our clueless anti-nuke believes that one has to actually go to Fukushima in order to measure the amount released.

Our chowderhead anti-nuke at least knows that there is methane on Titan. Did the dolt ever wonder how we know there is methane on Titan, because following his/her "logic"; one would need to actually go to Titan in order to make the measurement.

One can study astronomy to learn how astronomers and astrophysicists figure out the chemical composition of stars, planets, and moons...

However, the fact that we know the composition of the Titan atmosphere didn't even suggest to our anti-nuke that such remote sensing is possible.

Such is the lot of those who haven't the intellect nor training to understand good science; but only have their own self-righteous exaggeration of their own intellect.

Their phrasing with scatological references to "fanny probles" and the like; is every bit what one would expect to hear on the elementary school playground.

I think the scientists and engineers here can distinguish between the postings of other scientists, and child-like minds that belong on the playground.

Chaucer

Rude Dog,

Chaucer's Classic, 'Canterbury Tales', is full of scatalogical references, jokes and ribald tales.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/uranium-found-urine-hawaiian-resid...

And shame it is,if a preest take keep,
A shiten shepherde and a clene sheep.
Wel oghte a preest ensample for to yive,
By his clennesse, how that his sheep shold live.

http://www.bartleby.com/40/0103.html
Prologue to the Canterbury Tales, Lines 401–600
Geoffrey Chaucer (~1340 – 1400)

If you find it offensive, toughchit! No apologies are forthcoming, to the likes of liars such as you.

TTFN

too stupid … for words

For EXAMPLE, engineers and other scientists are familiar with the HAZARDS of interpolation and the inherent unreliability of Extrapolation. TIMELY, DIRECT measurements were taken IN, ON and NEAR the Fukushima Daiichi NPP facility. Those TIMELY, DIRECT measurements were NOT released in a timely manner. WE ALL KNOW IT.

WE WATCHED FDU-3 blow … SKY HIGH! UR therefore wasting your gawdamn time with this … extrapolation … horse hoodaw. Perhaps EWE should return to the fold, little sheep.

Move it along. UR too stupid … for words.

Rude Dog Statistics

Rude Dog Statistics:

1) Rude Dog is NOT now, and never WAS a professor (of engineering as he claimed) - 0%

2) Rude Dot is 'Good for Nothing', certainly NOT a 'good professor' - 0%

3) Some of the USA DATA, gathered in Japan now appears to be available. - 0%

The confidence level and utility for delayed data is MUCH lower than for contemporary data, which can be more easily confirmed or disproved. Certainly it is far too late for an independent team to travel to Japan and verify/negate the asserted I-131 data. Willful delays are bad science, bad public relations, bad government and bad public health.

Rude Dog scores a Zero Percent (0%) in Statistics and a gross score of Zero (0.0)

Counting Statistics

It should be obvious to most thinking people that the good Professor is correct here. How much of a radionuclide's decay curve one sees is a function of both the half life of the radionuclide and the amount of time that one counts the sample. For example, if one counts for a week a sample of I-131 with an 8 day half life; then one is going to see about half of the decay curve. However, if one counts for a week a sample of Cs-137 with a 30 year half life, one will see only about 0.04 % of the decay curve. ( A 30 year half life is 1560 weeks. ) If one counts for a month, one can see just under 0.2% of the decay curve. Although one doesn't need to see half the curve in order to make a measurement, as per the good Professor; the longer one counts the long lived radionuclides; the more accurate the answer.

In any case, the good Professor is correct that any claims that the Comprehensive Test Ban Organization is biased because their findings were not released contemporaneously with the Fukushima accident are bogus and unfounded in the evidence. It is perfectly understandable to scientists why CTBTO presented their findings in the time frame that they did. Additionally, the CTBTO is part of the United Nations, for Heaven sake. They are not an industry group, they are not funded by industry, and don't owe their allegiance to the nuclear industry. They are "honest brokers". Those opposed to nuclear power are attempting to discredit them merely because CTBTO didn't give the answer the anti-nukes wanted.

The Big Fat Goose Egg = 0 --> 0%

Rude Dog Statistics:

1) Rude Dog is NOT now, and never WAS a professor (of engineering as he claimed) - 0%

2) Rude Dot is 'Good for Nothing', certainly NOT a 'good professor' - 0%

3) Some of the USA DATA, gathered in Japan now appears to be available. - 0%

The confidence level and utility for delayed data is MUCH lower than for contemporary data, which can be more easily confirmed or disproved. Certainly it is far too late for an independent team to travel to Japan and verify/negate the asserted I-131 data. Willful delays are bad science, bad public relations, bad government and bad public health.

Rude Dog scores a Zero Percent (0%) in Statistics and a gross score of Zero (0.0)

Same old story...

Same old story from the forum's resident fool.

How many times has this muffin-head repeated that results were not released "in a timely manner".

Does the moron understand what a "timely manner is".

For example, if one wanted to measure Iodine-131 with its 8 day half-life; one could measure a sample for a week, and one could clearly see the decay curve of any Iodine-131 that was present. Measuring for 8 days would show one half of the decay curve.

However, suppose one wanted to measure Cesium-137 with a 30 year half-life. Since the half-life of Cesium-137 is 30 years vs the 8 days of Iodine-131, the Cesium-137 decays at a much slower rate. Therefore, one has to count the sample for a much longer period to get a reliable measurement.

Our resident muffin-head must get his scientific knowledge from watching reruns of the "CSI" TV series where the "scientist" waves an instrument over the sample and has immediate results. That's TV fantasy.

Real scientists know that radioactive samples must be counted for longer periods as determined by the half-life.

Therefore, a 2 week or month delay in order to give proper counting time for an accurate answer is completely acceptable to scientists.

However, the mental defective with "CSI" TV training "thinks" (term used loosely for a lack of a better term) that results produced after sufficient counting time were, in the mind of the mental defective, "not released in a timely manner."

The scientists here make allowances for the scientific ignorance of such posters, and ignore their sorry missives.

Any freshman

Rude Dog is a gawdamn idiot

Any freshman in an Engineering Physics Class should be able to PLOT an exponential decay curve and do a best fit equation. Back in the DAY, my lab section, pulled some paper clips, nails or something of the sort, out of (one of) the on-campus nuclear reactors, and did it in an hour.

Did the same thing with an electrical Time Constant in the next phase of the lab, same day.

Rude Dog is a gawdamn idiot, again ... still ... always.

Crap what a moron ... DUH!

Evidently you didn't learn much from the experiment..

The above poster states:
Back in the DAY, my lab section, pulled some paper clips, nails or something of the sort, out of (one of) the on-campus nuclear reactors, and did it in an hour.

However, that isn't what CTBTO is doing.

In the classic physics demonstration done by the above poster, they were dealing with a single material of known composition. It is easy to plot the decay curve in this case.

However, CTBTO is analyzing a fallout sample of multiple materials of unknown composition; that is they don't know what fraction of the sample is Strontium-90 and what fraction is Cesium-137. That is what CTBTO has to determine.

The distribution of radionuclides in the fallout is a function of the energy of the incident neutron that caused the fission that produced the fission products. The distribution is known as the fission yield curve. Courtesy of Harvard University, the following shows two fission yield curves. The upper curve is for low energy (thermal) neutrons as found in a reactor. The lower curve is for neutrons of energy 2 MeV, the energy of neutrons emerging from fission.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1976AuJPh..29..125C/0000128.000...

So the upper fission yield curve is characteristic of the fallout from a reactor accident, and the lower fission yield curve is characteristic of the fallout from a nuclear explosion. The "valley" of the explosion curve is not as deep as the reactor curve, so the peaks are not as high since the sum over all fission products is 100% for both curves.

So there is a slight difference in the yield values for the most common fallout constituents like Strontium-90 and Cesium-137. CTBTO has to determine from their samples of Fukushima fallout whether the distribution is more like the upper curve or the lower curve.

If you just want to plot a decay curve for a single material of known composition, then measurements to 5% error would be fine, and high resolution counting is not needed, so one can have short counting times.

But if one is attempting to distinguish between two cases that are separated by a 1% difference; then clearly 5% error measurements don't have the resolution to discriminate between cases that are 1% different. The counting time requirements are much higher for the needed higher resolution.

Hence, the lesser counting time requirements of the simple physics class demonstration have nothing to do with the more stringent requirements for the analysis that CTBTO did. Our resident anti-nuke didn't know that and once again demonstrates inferior intellect and inferior command of the science. It seems that any time scientific principles and processes are discussed, the anti-nukes never shirk from giving us another demonstration of their abject stupidity.

Perhaps, instead of requiring the pro-nuclear side to prove that the FDU-3 explosion was not a nuclear explosion; in other words "proving a negative"; we should have the anti-nuclear side prove to us that it was a nuclear explosion.

Idiot anti-nuke Arnie Gundersen attempted to prove it was a nuclear explosion, but only showed us his shallow understanding of the scientific principles. For example, idiot Gundersen told us that the single high explosive hydrogen gas was responsible for the implosion of the nuclear fuel, "just like it happens in a nuclear weapon". However, that's NOT how it happens in a nuclear weapon. Nuclear weapons use "explosive lenses" with 2 or more explosive compositions in order to implode their nuclear fuel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_lens

In general, it is a device composed of several explosive charges that are shaped in such a way as to change the shape of the detonation wave passing through it, conceptually similar to the effect of an optical lens on light. The explosive charges that make it up have different rates of detonation.

With idiot Gundersen's abortive attempt at an explanation discredited and disposed of; perhaps the anti-nukes would attempt another "explanation".

Most of the followers of this forum consider BRAWM to be "honest brokers". What does BRAWM have to say? We have this from Tim of BRAWM:

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/5556#comment-18311

With regard to claims that there were nuclear explosions, even if this were true, this would decrease the 137 to 134 ratio, because of the shorter half-life of Cs-134. Our measurements, however, show an increase in this ratio, which is why we are confident it did not come from Fukushima.

Let's have some scientifically justified explanations from the anti-nukes as to their "explanation" of what happened, instead of the unsubstantiated, vacuous claims that everybody is lying except them and the people they like.

However, I predict that the anti-nukes answer will be another chance for them to demonstrate how incredibly stupid they are.

Hey Dog!

Tired of the troll-dog.

Troll your bad-self away from here.

Rude Dog is Dismissed

Rude Dog has been demonstrated to be a liar, dozens of times. He vainly continues to interject cribbed comments.

Rude Dog has been identified. That alone is sufficient to dismiss his assertions; given our extensive experience with this loser.

Res iudicata.

Move it along Rude Dog

You are not needed here.

As I predicted...

As I predicted; just more vacuous postings from the forum's resident pinhead.

No evidence. Nothing to back up the claims of lies.

This dope is following in the footsteps of Helen Caldicott and Arnie Gundersen and the other anti-nukes.

I guess we are seeing the making of an anti-nuke activist.

I'm glad I'm a scientist.

Gibberish. There's no reason

Gibberish.

There's no reason a soil sample couldn't be taken and a measurement done in a week.

But then what do you do with that measurement when you have a public that doesn't want to hear anything except "zero" and can't wrap their head around the concept of negligible?

Because of above ground testing there's no where on earth that has a soil plutonium level of "zero". And even the contamination levels seen at Rocky Flats weren't sufficient to bring the apocalypse to Denver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats.

Diemos

Damage Control

Pitiful

Your efforts at 'Damage Contol' are utterly pitiful.

It does NOT require a 'half life' to establish radionuclide contamination.

UR an idiot AND your employer takes the Engineers on this blog for idiots.

Your dispatcher is mistaken and you remain an idiot.

You are NOT a particularly 'useful idiot', just a garden variety idiot.

TTFN

Poor READING COMPEHENSION

The idiot above posted:

It does NOT require a 'half life' to establish radionuclide contamination.

I didn't say it did nitwit!!!

I stated that if you observed for a half-life, you would see half the decay curve.

I didn't say that one needed to see half the curve in order to derive a measurement.

That would have been immediately apparent to anyone when I stated that 2 weeks to a month or more was reasonable for something with a 30 year half-life.

I didn't say it took 30 years to make a determination for a 30 year half-life.

However, that 30 year half-life means that the counting time precludes immediate results.

In addition to poor reading comprehension, our resident dimbulb also assumes facts not in evidence. Why would anything I post here reflect on an employer?

First, I'm retired and don't have an employer. Certainly the Universities that have previously employed me surely can't be held responsible for what I do as a retiree.

Even if I had an employer, today is a holiday for most employers that employ scientists, so why would what someone did on their day off reflect on an employer?

Perhaps we should define the term "useless idiot" for the poster above who contributes literally nothing of value to this forum..

Rude Dog

Rude Dog,

You remain as stupid and useless as ever; and the quality factor of your lies remains LOW.

Very Low

TTFN

Evidence...????

...and the quality factor for the evidence of lies remains, as ever, NONEXISTENT

The USA sent probes to Japan

Rude Dog,

The USA DOE sent probes to Japan:

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/525-usa-aerial-measurement-flight-...

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/525-usa-aerial-measurement-flight-...

Various Space Agencies have sent PROBES to Saturn's moons and beyond

Because ... proximal, timely data is IMPORTANT

And again, still, always ... you remain the biggest fool on Terra Firma. Though your dispatcher is running a close 2nd.

TTFN

Rude Dog

Rude Dog,

You are STILL a loser; as you have ever been; and shall ever be.

L L L

Loser

TTFN

There are conflicting reports

I keep reading that some of the compounds they are finding are attributable to the fallout from the bombs we dropped and from other previous fallout but that some are directly attributable to Fukushima.

Lots of new HOT stuff

Lots of newly emitted, long half-life (millenia) stuff. This requires historic data to determine the change.

Lots of newly emitted, short half-life (< a year) stuff. The weapon test fallout, and Chernobyl is long gone.

Lots of newly emitted, medium half-life stuff (Years to Decades). This represents a BIG bump in quantity. The difference is OBVIOUS.

The Ratio of the stuff in the atmosphere testing is useful, as it is, (except for Radon, C-14 and the like), virtually ALL new. The old stuff has washed to the ground and been soaked up.

Then it is just a matter of resetting the half-life clock on each isotope, with the now much larger quantities.

Wouldn't the fallout from

Wouldn't the fallout from 60+ years ago have been detected by now? I could see it out in the country in some abandoned field or something, but at an active nuclear power plant>???? Come on, they do all types of testing at these plants all the time.

There's no way the plutonium came from the MOX spent fuel rods flying all over the place, is there?

Platonium

I'm quite curious about the plutonium also. That stuff sounds nasty and if it's showing up in California I think the public should know.

Flights from Japan trip US airport radiation detectors march 24

Frontline personnel at airports are equipped with personal radiation detectors (PRDs), and all airports have radiation isotope identification devices (RIIDs), which are more sensitive and detect radiation as well as determining its type. The agency would not give details of how the detectors work, however, or the composition of the materials that they detect, citing reasons of national security. 

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2011/March/24031102.asp

Plutonium

Just to second what others have said about the urgency around this and testing in general. Also to volunteer financial support if that's necessary.
Thank you!

Unknown. But, we are

Unknown. But, we are looking into setting up an alpha spectroscopy measurement later this week to look for plutonium. We don't expect to see anything, but this will give us some hard data.

Thank you for doing this.

Thank you for doing this. This has been my main concern since we learned about the amount of MOX at reactor 3. They are just now starting to test for plutonium in Japan...(more than two weeks after the explosion at reactor 3) The EPA is only doing gamma testing (at least in data they have made available to the public) leaving everyone else to guess just how much of these alpha emitting elements we are being exposed to.

Does UCB need to purchase any additional equipment in order to complete these tests? I appreciate the information you have provided so far and would be willing to donate in order to get the proper equipment for these tests.

We may not find plutonium on

We may not find plutonium on west coast because it is heavier metal - is it correct? Or is it because it is harder to detect (high end equipment is needed)? Is it possible to detect uranium (another heavier metal)? If uranium has reached then (quite possibly) plutonium has also reached here.

I heard this as well...

Is it true that plutonium is less likely to travel the long distance across the Pacific because it is heavier?

Plutonium and uranium are

Plutonium and uranium are not likely to travel through the air to California because of the chemical nature of these metals. From my understanding, they form oxides which fall to the ground instead of float in the air.

plutonium was vaporized

Go to Fairewinds and listen to Arnie Gunderson (nuclear engineer with impressive credentials) explain how the explosion at plant 3 was a nuclear one not hydrogen and that the plutonium was vaporized and it certainly has arrived here acccording to both him and Helen Caldicott.

plutonium oxide

I read on the internet that plutonium oxide travels by air.
Not sure how far though.

Again, cannot stress this

Again, cannot stress this enough, but THANK YOU for everything you guys are going.