Is there an appropriate forum?

I think the Brawm team have been incredibly patient and communicative but it was only a matter of time for the fear to turn into a full blown nuclear witch hunt. I completely agree that this is not the place for a discussion about conspiracy and I truly believe most of the people on here are not interested in paranoid driven theories, but there is something to be said about how persistant the fearanoia posts are becoming. I get the feeling we are all shocked at the real world consequences of our complacency come to light. We are shocked by truths about the nature of the energy industry but they were apparently not much of a secret...I have found articles regarding plants all over the world from years past having contaminated one community or another...this one seems to be no differant. Mister cromack has brought some interesting facts up as well as the posts from hot caviar neither of whom seem like your average conspiracy nut...another poster I've noticed providing pretty solid facts is Bill...I appreciate your interpretations and hoped perhaps to start a thread in which we could discuss the facts as you three see them. Compare notes if you will. I am not at all interested in pointin fingers at the Bpawm team or anyone else for that matter...just a quick summary of whatever you have taken from your research.

Come join our forum

It's uncensored, and invites anyone to participate to share news & opinion about the Fukushima crisis. Moderated only against spam.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukushimafalloutforum/

FB

The Facebook site is now available to view, but one must be a member to post. Please check it out, it is valuable for up-to-date information, sharing of ideas and camaraderie. >>>>>"Banned by IAEA".

I don't trust Facebook

Sorry, if I have to join, I'm not going to that group. Facebook is a huge privacy threat to everyone who signs up.

Banned by IAEA and organizing thoughts

I just sent a request to join.

Dan and Anonymous, I think your ideas about banding together to try to exert some pressure is a good place to start.

We'll see what's going on with the Facebook forum. I guess if the social network could play a revolutionary role in the Middle East maybe it can in the anti-nuke arena.

Is anyone else who's interested in this local to the Bay Area?

Forum

I too have been an active poster, though mostly anonymously. I'd love to join a separate forum to compare notes among active researchers and hopefully to... ORGANIZE. I used to work at an enviro organization in NY and worked on the campaign to shut Indian Pt. Now live in Berkeley with my 2 year old daughter. Looking for ways to help stop the collective insanity! Perhaps we could join up with some of the active posters on the Forbes blog too..

Having experience with

Having experience with organizing and campaigning do you have suggestions where to start? I hope we can get a few of the "regulars" on board.

Thank you CF! I'm hoping we

Thank you CF! I'm hoping we can keep this thread open and active long enough to bring about some dialogue between the community of posters who have no agenda other than seeking honest information and dialogue. To hell with the trolls and disinformation shills who no doubt frequent these forums. There are some shocking facts spread over hundreds of threads so I would really like to hear from the most outspoken. Again, I would like to hear from anyone else with a clear non biased summary of events...let's organise folks!

right on! This is totally

right on! This is totally ridiculous!!! I can't handle not being able to to ANYTHING about this crap. It's unjust and offensive to humanity. If we organize at least we can TRY to get our voices heard. Maybe we can get to Arnie at Fairewinds to help give "expert" support to this? We'd have to come up with an organized set of goals I think. Some ideas: get the pressure up so high that an international coalition of experts (who may know more than Tepco) actively and visibly begin to get this thing under control; make the gov./epa give us more info in a organized, timely fashion; make the NRC stop bull****ing us. Just some ideas.

Education and Action!

Education and Action!

Exactly! This is not about

Exactly! This is not about political affiliation or anti pro bs, this is a call for action for the people by the people! My faith in humanity, especially in it's darkest hours will not dwindle. I am also tired of being treated like a faceless nameless consumer it's time we let people know that we are individuals not statistics which is what we will let ourselves become if we forget that no one can advocate for our individual health and happiness but ourselves.

Thanks for the props and here are a few thoughts:

First, I will say that I rely on the European Committee on Radiation Risk models and recomendations (BRAWM does not, but they are not health physicists)

I also recommend reading the research articles at the Radiation and Public Health Project website for the best current research on risk and radiation from nuclear plants as well as some of their new info re: Fukushima. They can be found at www.radiation.org

I would also recommend highly all of the posts and discussions at the following site:

http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffmcmahon/2011/04/27/radioactive-strontium-fou...

Jeff is clearheaded, objective, serious and is digging deeper and encourages discussion on his blog forum. He has done an eccellent series of very worthwhile articles - especially on the EPA and FDA risk issues we often discuss here. I have learned a lot be reading material there and discussions with several folks (including Rick) who post there in the forums (click on the "see all comments" button to see them all, otherwise only the posts Jeff "calls out" will appear.

I would summarize my views as follows:

The radionculides we have seen will, in my opinion, result in increased birth defects, spontaneous abortions, infant deaths, cancers and metabolic disorders in the foreseeable future in the United States. Research shows that this happened after Chernobyl in the United States. I have taken away the milk and most fresh produce from my kids meals and use frozen veggies and whatever ese makes sense. Almond milk is excellent. NEXT year these foods may have contamination but this year they are probably fine.

The radioiodine will be out of milk products in a matter of -3 months (depending, of course, on the releases being eliminated which is uncertain as I watched NHK today and they are still emitting huge plumes of steam (but the radioiodine is not too likely to be from spent fuel).

The intial explosions MAY have released strontium 90, a deadly kiler with a half life of 28 years or so in particulate and vapor form and NOW various reports (see the McMahon blog and comments) say radiostrontium is in Hawaiian milk (strontium-89 with a half life of 55 days or so which means it is very likely a Fukushima release) and the EPA reports that where they see radiocesium, they look for Strontium 90 (but as near as I can tell they are barely looking as according to most reports it is everywhere already and they are saying they are finding none --- but they have done VERY few tests and, according to what I read on McMahon's blog, they are obfuscating or just not testing or testing what they need to.

Whattever long term radionuclides are in the rains and dry dispersion will begin to bioaccumulate in food, milk, meat, fish, cheese, etc and will be pretty much everywhere (which is why Strontium 90 testing is SO important along with the much easier to detect radiocesium) as their half life is 28 years and they bioaccumulate in bones and organs where they rip apart and mutate our dna (especially fetuses) cauing all sorts of horrors.

The BEST info I have found on radioprotection is Dr. Blaylock (sorry - no link, but google dr. Blaylock and radiation health, you will find him) who did a few interviews and recommends, among other things, Turmeric (take with black pepper for better bioavailability). Cinnamon also is excellent as is garlic and many other natural products which have antioxidents and other healing qualities.

Once the radioiodine is gone avoiding the most likley contamants is important but it will be damn near impossible so protective diets are in order (aside from water filters etc which I cannot afford and I have a deep water well right now so I am not too worried).

Get your thyroid tested (see Mary Shomon's site for info as blood tests are often not useful to detect metabolic problems from the radioidine extcept in severe cases) in a few months.

I try to get troipical products and found the safe food thread here useful (if I could afford it). But I do work with herbs and turmeric is really magic as may be cinnamon and you can just make it as a tea or add it to tea or coffee.

I suspect that Strontium 90 us already ubiquitous and more may have arrived with the rains, so boning up on that is a good idea.

A healthy immune system ,reduced stress, antioxident foods (love blueberries and autumn olives), avoiding dairy for a few months, a little wine, etc

and

we have to keep beating the NO NUKES drums and LEARNING as much as we can. Once a decade of renewed massive exposure is WAY too much and we have been soaking up this radiation for nearly 70 years now (ECRR, btw, estimates TOTAL deaths from man made radionuclides as MORE than 65 MILLION people. Chernobyl alone may have caused nearly 200,000 cancers in the US according to the NY Academy of Sciences publication and globally a MILLION cancer deaths (not to mention hypothyroid disease, heart disease, etc etc etc)

So that kind of sums up my perspective so far. I am glad I am not a young parent (my kids are teens) or parent to be but my daughter is child bearing age and one of her friends, a downwinder, just told us he has bone cancer (grew up near the local nuke plants). I expect that what is in our environment will be deadly to a much larger extent than anyone in authority is letting on and has been for a long long time.

My REAL opinion? I think they WANT the population reduced to more manageable levels. But i usually do not post that as it sounds too CT. But if you study history, as I do, it makes perfect sense. Cull the herd and weaken the opponents to corrupt power.

I agree with the late Nuclear Scientist Dr. John Gofman (google him - he worked on the Manhattan project) who said that the people who promote these technologies are guilty of crimes against humanity and that Nuremberg Trials are in order for those who do so knowingly, because it is , in his words, "premeditated murder".

You asked. (BTW - I worked in the industry very briefly and became an opponent when I learned the true dangers that were being hidden and lied about by our government and industry and military: cancer pandemics, disease pandemics with mutating viruses and bacteria we have no immunity to, thyroid disease causing total endocine breakdowns - and all of that BEFORE Fukushima!)

Cheers. Carry on or flame away. Thats my opinion and last I looked its still a pretty free country.

Great link...I'll be

Great link...I'll be watching that page closely from now on.

I just want to say once

I just want to say once more...Great summary of your conclusions. And rather than posting to contradict or refute Bill's assessment I would invite anyone else to provide their summary in a clear concise post. I think it would be great if we could get everyone on one thread to voice their conclusions so that we could compare and learn from our seperate and sometimes differing views (without a petty war of words).

Thank's Bill. Yeah we're

Thank's Bill. Yeah we're expecting in our fourth month now. Scary stuff. Again, I appreciate you sharing your conclusions. I'll check out those sites. I guess now the question is...I don't know what to type here actually. I'm really stymied by the posters that are trying to downplay or shush any discussion about the realistic consequences. I nominate you, Rick, Hotcaviar, and a few others I can't recall right now as heads of a new independent watchdog committee...:) I don't have the time, resources, or intellect to sift through alot of what I'm reading so it's great that some of you folk's are breaking it down for those of us that lack the internet research skills required to fact check this deluge of information. Haha, and all these years we were worried about growth hormones and processed fast food. The rabbit hole is so much deeper than I ever could have imagined.
P.S. A month back I read an article about the last time an earthquake of that magnitude hit in Japan it was possible it caused the eruption of Mt. Fuji a month later...and a week after that another article mentioned a think tank of engineers had been formed to deal with how to cool the reactors and what do you know...they named the group after Mt. Fuji. I'm sure it doesn't relate but in my opinion I think it highlights one of the more significant possible events that could disrupt efforts to contain the Fukushima disaster. Agh. I KNOW I'm in over my head...I know fear does strange things to a person...it's like buying blue radioactive car and seeing blue radioactive cars everywhere from then on right?...

Also...I would highly

Also...I would highly recommend reading the NYT article today about Japan's Culture of Complacency and how it lead to this disaster. It definately parallels some of our problems here in the states. My aunt who is a nurse practitioner had this to say about the health effects of radioactive releases "Well there isn't much we can do about it...and if it is going to kill me I don't really want to think about"...this is the attitude of everyone I know! CULTURE OF COMPLACENCY

Go to Facebook and Join

Go to Facebook and Join "Banned by the IAEA"

will do thanks

will do thanks

It's not there

It's not there actually...unless I'm doing something wrong it did not come up as a listed event person or group...

You're right, it's not

You're right, it's not there. Nothing turns up when I search for it.

Sorry folks about the FB

Sorry folks about the FB problem, but I'm working on it so others can join.I will post here when it is resolved, check back.

Zuckerberg...is that you? I

Zuckerberg...is that you? I loved your movie.

So

Fukushima presents a knew challenge .you can learn a lot from my post" unlike three mile island" this crisis is far and beyond any other nuclear accidents .if tepcos "water tomb" plan for reactors one two and three does not work or if even one reactor suffers a melt through we may reach a point where the plant is lost.let's collectively hope this water tomb works .even if the outer two containments are breached and radioactive highly contaminated water leaks out and continues to it is better for the radiation to go into sea, higher dilution ratio.so rather than suffer more explosions and possible abandoning of plant they are left to contaminate the ocean vs the island of Japan's landmass.these aren't great choices but it's the truth and it sucks. So I ask u is this post a fearanoia post?

Water tomb

Fukushima operator starts test-drowning damaged reactor
P

http://rt.com/news/operator-test-drowning-damaged-reactor/

I don't think so but i'll

I don't think so but i'll bet dollars to doughnuts someone will say it is before the day is through. I wonder why it is so hard to get a clear assessment of how dire and precarious the situation is...what if fuji erupts or a quake strikes or one of an infinate possibilities occur and this worsens...seems more likely by the minute. xWHY NOT contemplate the likelihood and consequences of tepco losing control?

seems to be honest assessment here

Fears Fukushima crisis will worsen as world remembers Chernobyl

http://rt.com/news/fukushima-nuclear-chernobyl-tepco/

Having trouble linking with

Having trouble linking with my phone browser...but i'll be sure to check it when I get a chance. I'm really hoping I will hear a response from a staff member too...I'm sure there have been extensive discussions and speculation about what will come of this. I highly respect the team and their expertise so any input here would be highly appreciated.

I would really like to hear

I would really like to hear from a member of the team on this... Do you guy's ever contemplate what could be if tepco doesn't manage to control the situation...I can't believe you have one hundred percent faith in their abilities at this point...please dchivers or anyone on the team respond

I would invite anyone to

I would invite anyone to provide a clear summary of the information they have gathered...

it would be nice

to have an open forum, where it's easier to keep track of information and discussions, to continue some of these discussions. Something not on FB or yahoo...

What's wrong with our forum?

Lisa, what's wrong with our forum on Yahoo? If there is some disadvantage to it I'm not seeing, we can set up a "traditional" forum.

Thank you Lisa! It would be

Thank you Lisa! It would be great if we could put our collective heads together to sort out the chaff from the wheat as they say. There are many of us here that I KNOW to be level headed NON extremists and I'm surprised how little regard some posters have for our questions and speculation. We don't have a 1-800 number to call with questions comments and concerns so it seems we've found our way to BRAWMS forum, unfortunately, so have the trolls. I read DChivers post in which a stated that he would not normally address posts that are blatantly fear mongering but felt he had to so because to leave them unchallenged gave them a false validity...I skip over anything that mentions ENEnews and the Idealist or god forbid anyone directing someone to Abovetopsecret or godlikeproductions but other posters claims like Hotcaviar and Rick's are hard to disregard. THERE IS corner cutting and POWER DOES CORRUPT, and there is no doubt in my mind that a company like TEPCO has covered up spills in the past and in this case are FAILING TO ADMIT they are on the brink of a full scale meltdown...Mr. Kaku's interview on democracy now seems to be the most candid discussion regarding the reality of the situation out there and NOT ONCE have I heard an expert comment on his claims other than one poster stating he thought he was an alarmist...in my opinion this situation is ALARMING. If someone tells you it is they aren't fear mongering they are providing an honest assessment of how serious this mess is...What happens if TEPCO fails to control the situation, which is looking like that is the case? Have any of the members of the BRAWM team considered what they would do if things get worse? I'm sorry, I'm NOT TRYING TO GENERATE PANIC OR FEAR...We look to you for these answers, we flood your forum with our questions about what you would do because it seems that you are all alot more "in the know". So please can we start a clear discussion about the possibility that TEPCO is not being honest and is not handling the situation well, and what the realistic possible consequences and contamination will be? Not just the west coast either...this is a global event right. I'm getting so frustrated feeling like the tone from posters bounce between "shut up leave brawm alone and do the math yourself" or "THE ROOF IS ON FIRE!!! EVERYBODY IS GOING TO DIE". You are the experts in nuclear physics so can you give us an assesment of what could be? I would much rather hear your take on TEPCO's handling of this and what could come...

Dan, you just don't get it...

"A level-headed NON-extremist" is one who swallows the government/corporate line that "there is no danger" and radiation risks are "far below levels of concern."

Placing yourself above we "kooks" is only serving those who don't give a rat's rear about any of us. You think that marginalizing people is going to make yourself look better to the liars who have spewed from the beginning?

The BRAWM team has provided us all with unmatchable data, and they deserve our praise. However, you're expecting them to dare to go farther against the nuclear industry in which their institution, the University of California, still has deep stakes.

I aimed to "do something" even though it's only disseminating information. That's why I set up our forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukushimafalloutforum/ It's there for you, or anyone else, to share information and ask questions.

I sincerely apologize,

John. I had no idea it seemed as if I was marginalizing or trying to place myself above the "kooks" on this site I read through my posts again and I can see how it would appear that way. So, here's how it's gone for me since this mess started. When news first broke about the hydrogen explosion I was pretty freaked out. The scenario unfolding in Japan was my worst childhood fears come to life. Radiation scarets the hell out of me primarily due to the fact that I had read WAY too many books about nuclear end of the world scenarios in highschool. For three weeks I chewed my nail's and scanned the internet using mostly mainstream media sources like BBC, NPR, and CNN for any updates hour by hour (which wasn't hard too find before the blackout) and that seemed to be all we could do to stay informed. A few weeks back the blackout started and information became harder to find which, somehow, led me to seek out this forum. Since then, I've been directed to websites like Enenews, RadiationFears, and the Idealist. I don't know why but I was reluctant to believe the information being provided by these websites despite my inherent mistrust of MSM. I would like to believe alot of what they were citing, including the models of fallout that made it appear we were going to be blanketed by deadly amounts of radiation in 8-10 day's that seemed to appear once or twice a week, was all just the opposite side of the spectrum and that whoever was putting out such extremely frightening data must have had as much to gain from generating fear as any other news source...and because it was too frightening to consider. Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place...who to believe? Why don't I know anyone other than myself that is concerned about fallout and health effect's and what's to come? I'm doing everything I can not to put a wedge between myself and my family and friend's going on and on about the risk's associated with the crisis only for all of them to roll their eyes and smirk like I'm being an alarmist...or worse...the dreaded "conspiracy theorist in their midst. So I'm stuck lurking around this forum trying to sift through individual posts desperate to find something solid, easy to interpret, straight forward and honest that I can bring to the people I love in case there is information available that could potentialy save them from the health risks I keep reading about. So there you have it...that's my Brawm Forum Confession. I give thanks to everyone here that have put up with my sometimes idiotic posts and threads.

Maybe people will realize

Maybe people will realize that trusting ECRR is just as bad as trusting TEPCO.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733710621?...

There is a huge difference between Tepco and ECRR

First - Tepco has a huge profit motive (ECRR is a nonprofir)

second - Tepco has liability for the harm and a responsibility to protect its legal interests by minimizing the risk of liability for harm (ECRR's primary interest is the health and safety of humanity and nature - it has no incentive to avoid liability and causes NO harm by releasing contaminants into the air and water)

Third - the analysis in your link is by a UK GOVERMENTAL agency which has a vested interest due to corporate influence to protect the nuclear industry and the government from liability and from economic harm, despite elevated risks to the public. We see this with the AIEA, the NRC, the Japanese government, the EPA, the FDA and many other industry influenced governmental agencies.

Finally, the health effects of low level radiation and the risk models proposed by the ECRR are consistent with the peer-reviewed findings of the US NGO The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP) which can be found in the articles link and other data at www.radiation.org I highly recommend folks become familiar with this group and their projects.

The ECRR has responded to these allegations in numeroud forums and further research has been done, but overall I think your assertion is without foundation because the ECRR does not have the HUGE profit-making and economic and political incentive to minimize the risks that TEPCO and other industry and governmental entities have.

Thanks, Dan

I appreciate your clarification. Like you, I am skeptical of places like ENE News, but on occasion they're right on. I aim to discern reality from the fiction; God knows there's plenty of it from BOTH sides!

Also like you, I lived through Chernobyl (I was 15), and this is a reawakening of all my thoughts & feelings from 25 years ago.

Oops. Above post was in

Oops. Above post was in response to JohnK...not submitted by him.

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