"The Panic over Fukushima" by a UC-Berkeley Physicist
UC-Berkeley Dept of Physics Professor Richard Muller has penned the following article:
"The Panic over Fukushima"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044477240457758927044405933...
It's refreshing to see what a real scientist says about Fukushima instead of all the self-serving sensational hype that one gets from the media and self-serving propagandists.
For example:
Denver has particularly high natural radioactivity. It comes primarily from radioactive radon gas, emitted from tiny concentrations of uranium found in local granite. If you live there, you get, on average, an extra dose of .3 rem of radiation per year (on top of the .62 rem that the average American absorbs annually from various sources). A rem is the unit of measure used to gauge radiation damage to human tissue.
The International Commission on Radiological Protection recommends evacuation of a locality whenever the excess radiation dose exceeds .1 rem per year. But that's one-third of what I call the "Denver dose." Applied strictly, the ICRP standard would seem to require the immediate evacuation of Denver.
Germany, Belgium, Switzerland & Japan abandon nukes
Germany, Belgium, Switzerland & Japan abandon nuclear power generation
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/17/areva-japan-idUSL5E8KH1JI20120917
(Reuters) - PARIS, Sept 17 | Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:06am EDT - Les Echos Interview with Areva Chief Executive Luc Oursel. (Reporting by Caroline Jacobs; Editing by Mark Potter)
Last Friday, the Japanese government announced plans to stop using nuclear power by the 2030s, joining Germany, Belgium and Switzerland in turning away from the energy source. Japan was the third-biggest user of atomic energy before the disaster.
Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda's unpopular government faced intense lobbying from industries to maintain atomic energy. Japan represented 8 percent of Areva's revenues prior to the disaster.
State-controlled Areva, the world's biggest builder of nuclear reactors, supplies nuclear fuels (MOX) to Japan. "If indeed Japan will get to zero percent in nuclear, the impact on the global energy market will be very strong: there will be a massive shift to gas," Oursel told Les Echos.
Utilities “Panic over Fukushima”
Electrical Utility “Panic over Fukushima”
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201209080057
“Electric power companies are becoming increasingly desperate”
September 08, 2012
THE ASAHI SHIMBUN
Electric power companies are becoming increasingly desperate to restart their nuclear plants to stay afloat, warning of rate hikes and blackouts if their reactors remain offline. But the utilities are ignoring the key question of whether nuclear energy is really needed to meet the nation’s power demand.
“Unless more nuclear plants are brought back online, our balance sheet will worsen, threatening a stable power supply,” Makoto Yagi, president of Kansai Electric Power Co., told a news conference on Sept. 7. Yagi said the company will consider all possible options, suggesting a rate hike, if the shutdowns continue at nuclear plants. The utility posted a net loss of 99.5 billion yen ($1.26 billion) in the April-June period, compared with a net profit of 34.4 billion yen a year earlier.
But electric power companies continue to lobby for restarting nuclear reactors, saying their very survival is at stake. “We will reach a dead end in a few years,” a senior Kansai Electric official said. “We will not be able to cover the snowballing costs even if personnel expenses are slashed to zero.” In addition to Kansai Electric, seven regional electric utilities suffered net losses in the April-June period.
“NISA officials RAN AWAY”
“NISA officials ran away”
Panic @ Fukushima!
“After the outbreak of the Fukushima crisis, some NISA officials ran away from the site.”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120906f1.html
Thursday, Sep. 6, 2012 - By KAZUAKI NAGATA - Staff writer
The people in charge of nuclear safety were mainly concerned with how things usually go right and "they significantly failed to visualize how things could go wrong," said Hatamura.
He added that Japan's traditional institutional culture needs to be changed because it failed to hone workers' individual skills and sense of initiative to handle a situation where the by-the-book response was useless.
After the outbreak of the Fukushima crisis, some NISA officials ran away from the site.
Kurokawa suggested Japanese regulators communicate and have more training programs with their peers in other countries to understand how they are regarded outside Japan.
Meanwhile, he also criticized the government for the lack of transparency in the process to choose the five commissioners for the new nuclear regulatory body that debuts this month.
----------------
Panic @ Fukushima? “NISA officials RAN AWAY!”
GE Ran
If memory serves,
GE officials were present at Fukushima DURING the earthquake & tsunami. The GE officials RAN LIKE RABBITS to get OUT of JAPAN.
Not sure if GE guys or the NISA guys WON the footrace to get away from Fukushima Daiichi.
Probably a tie ...
Panic @ Fukushima
Feet 'Do Your Duty'
The "safety myth" & "regulatory capture"
Investigators fault nuclear culture
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120906f1.html
Thursday, Sep. 6, 2012 - By KAZUAKI NAGATA - Staff writer
Kiyoshi Kurokawa, Yotaro Hatamura and Koichi Kitazawa, who led separate investigations into the Fukushima nuclear crisis, appear together at a symposium in Tokyo last Friday. (KAZUAKI NAGATA) Kitazawa's private-sector commission released its final report in February, while the panels run by Kurokawa and Hatamura released theirs in July. The three chairmen stressed that it is crucial for Japan's nuclear power community to change its institutional culture and adopt a more transparent process for making policy.
Kiyoshi Kurokawa, who led a Diet-appointed panel, Yotaro Hatamura, who chaired a government-appointed panel, and Koichi Kitazawa, who headed a team set up by the Rebuild Japan Initiative Foundation that became known as the "private-sector" investigation panel, appeared at the same public event last Friday for the first time since they finished their investigations to discuss their findings and exchange views on how their respective reports can be utilized.
They said people involved in nuclear safety issues were hung up on the notion — often dubbed the "safety myth" — that Japan's reactors were safe and could not possibly suffer a catastrophic accident, so they didn't have to think ahead about steps to contain such crises.
Kurokawa, a physician and professor emeritus at the University of Tokyo, said NISA, the government nuclear watchdog, failed to properly implement regulations because the utilities have more nuclear expertise, reversing the position of the regulators and those being regulated in a phenomenon called "regulatory capture."
The people in charge of nuclear safety were mainly concerned with how things usually go right and "they significantly failed to visualize how things could go wrong," said Hatamura.
Enjoyed the debate
I've enjoyed the debate here between "rude dog" and the "moron". I note that "rude dog" backed up his statements with references / links to disinterested and authoritative sources, such as University websites. Evidently, he is the scholar he claims to be. The "moron" offered us only vitriol that was merely his opinion with no substantiation of his claims for the reader.
Game, set, and match to "rude dog".
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
All the RUDE DOG has "PROVEN" is that he or she has the ability to use Google. NONE of his or her sources are "DISINTERESTED" OR "AUTHORITATIVE". As they ALL reinforce his or her nuclear power-military Armageddon industry propaganda, they are CLEARLY BIASED and are no more AUTHORITATIVE than a TEPCO investment brochure!
WINNING! You MORON
Stopping the LIES
Getting TIRED of hearing the same ofd lIES does not constitute 'panic'.
Deliberative Public Policy does not constitute 'panic'.
Scrapping dangerous equipment is NOT 'panic'.
The Belgians, Germans and Japanese are shuttering these OLD, DEFECTIVE, CORRODED, BRITTLE nuclear reactors. Doctor DICK and the Rude Dog are falsely characterizing the routine governance of Europe and Japan as ... 'panic'. Nothing could be further from the TRUTH!
http://www.greenpeace.nl/Blogs/Klimaat--energie/een-reactorvat-bouwen-al...
Read with Google Translaters:
http://translate.google.com/#
Another Citation
President Francois Hollande pledged to close France's oldest operational nuclear plant in 2016.
http://www.france24.com/en/20120914-frances-hollande-outlines-green-ener...
Friday, 14 September 2012 - 18H30
Addressing 14 ministers and about representatives from environmental bodies and business, Hollande said the nuclear plant at Fessenheim -- commissioned in 1977 and the object of a recent safety scare -- would be closed. The plant, located on the banks of the Rhine, is close to the Swiss and German borders and is considered vulnerable to seismic activity and flooding.
France, the world's most nuclear-dependent country, operates 58 reactors and has been a leading international proponent of atomic energy. Hollande promised to cut reliance on nuclear energy from more than 75 percent to 50 percent by shutting 24 reactors by 2025.
Citations
How about CITING the Japanese Parliament?
http://ajw.asahi.com/slide/archive/2012/08/26/
Forty-two percent of Diet members favor a government proposal for abandoning nuclear energy by 2030, showing growing support for a drastic policy shift following last year’s nuclear disaster, an Asahi Shimbun survey found.
-----
And/Or Citing the Japanese Body Public
Anti-nuclear protests signal new activism in Japan
This is Japan's summer of discontent. Tens of thousands of protesters--the largest demonstrations the country has seen in decades--descend on Tokyo every Friday evening to shout anti-nuclear slogans at the prime minister's office. Many have never protested publicly before.
Immediately SCRAP 56% of the Nukes
TOKYO, Sept. 6, Kyodo
A cross-party group of 91 lawmakers said Thursday 28 of Japan's 50 commercial nuclear reactors must immediately be decommissioned and the rest are dangerous.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/09/180785.html
20:54 6 September
------------------------------------------
Works for me ...
Scrap 1/2 of the nukes INSTANTLY and the rest ... ASAP!
... Heading in the RIGHT direction ...
Citing GREENPEACE - give me a break...
I don't know why anyone would cite Greenpeace as a legitimate source for information. Greenpeace is an advocacy group, that has its own agenda. If you read a "hit piece" against President Obama that was authored and posted on the website of the Republican Party; would you say, "Oh, I better not vote for Obama. He did all this wrong / bad stuff - and the proof is this stuff posted on the Republican Party website"...
Would you accept the Republican Party to give you honest information about Obama? Of course not.
Then why are you so MANIFESTLY STUPID as to believe that Greenpeace is going to tell you the honest truth about nuclear power?
If you want truth; look toward "honest brokers"; not advocates who have their own agendas.
Greenpeace co-founder Dr. Patrick Moore left Greenpeace when it was taken over by the looney radicals. Why not check out what Dr. Patrick Moore has to say about nuclear power in his testimony to Congress which he posts on his own website "Greenspirit":
http://www.greenspirit.com/index.cfm
http://www.greenspirit.com/logbook.cfm?msid=70
“Nuclear energy is the only non-greenhouse gas-emitting power source that can effectively replace fossil fuels and satisfy global demand.”
—Dr. Patrick Moore, PhD
and in which Dr. Moore states this about his former Greenpeace colleagues:
They are anti-science and technology. All large machines are seen as inherently destructive and unnatural. Science is invoked to justify positions that have nothing to do with science. Unfounded opinion is accepted over demonstrated fact.
Still think we should be listening to Greenpeace?
Check out this video of a speech by Dr. Patrick Moore in Grand Rapids, Michigan a few years ago:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/199958-1
Attack Dogs
Rude Dog ATTACKS
Heel, Rude Dog, Sit, Roll Over, Play Dead ... FETCH
The nuclear power subgroup, of the USA Defense Industrial Complex, constitutes a Clear and Present Danger to the USA citizenry and the American form of government.
The behavior of the nuclear power subgroup has convinced me, that the most appropriate course of action is to substantially reduce the use of nuclear power generation in the USA.
The oldest and most dangerous nuclear power reactors should be decommissioned, particularly the GE Mark-1, and GE Mark-2 so called 'containment systems'.
There should not be ANY MOX fueled nuclear power reactors in the continental USA for the next 50 to 100 years. This should allow time for the ENTIRE GENERATION of LIARS to DIE.
We can't CONTROL or TRUST the present nuclear power industry. Thus the best thing to do is shut them down and starve them out. Perhaps a few generations from now, a nuclear power industry could be reconstituted, along more HONORABLE and humanitarian lines.
For now, it is hopeless ...
IMHO
More "junk science" from our PATHETIC MORON
The PATHETIC MORON writes:
There should not be ANY MOX fueled nuclear power reactors in the continental USA for the next 50 to 100 years.
MOX is just Plutonium that is being returned to the reactor to be burned. The anti-nuke morons "think" that if you don't put MOX back into the reactor to be burned, that there won't be any Plutonium in the reactor. This is 100% WRONG. The Plutonium is made in reactors all the time, whether or not you put MOX in them. As long as 97% of the fuel material is U-238; you are going to get Plutonium. That's because neutron irradiation transmutes U-238 into Plutonium.
Even if you don't put MOX in a reactor, about 40% of the energy generated comes from burning Plutonium. It's just that when the reactor exhausts its Uranium fuel and the fission product waste has accumulated to the point that it interferes with the continued operation of the reactor and it is time to refuel; all the Plutonium has not been consumed. It then becomes part of the spent fuel waste.
The problem with nuclear waste is the longevity of the Plutonium. The fission products die off to stable elements on a much shorter time-scale. Read what nuclear physicist and then Associate Director of Argonne National Lab, Dr. Charles Till, had to say in an interview with PBS's Frontline:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews/till.html
Q: And you repeat the process.
A: Eventually, what happens is that you wind up with only fission products, that the waste is only fission products that have, most have lives of hours, days, months, some a few tens of years. There are a few very long-lived ones that are not very radioactive.
The reason you make MOX to recycle back to the reactor is because you want to burn the long-lived Plutonium and transmute it into short-lived fission products.
It doesn't take a fleet of reactors to do this. The IFR of which Dr. Till was speaking used metallic fuel; so the recycled Plutonium was metallic and not MOX. ( MOX is Mixed OXide - a mixture of Uranium and Plutonium oxides, which are ceramics and not metallic. ) However, the IFR concept and prototype had an onsite reprocessing facility. The Plutonium made in a given IFR reactor would be recycled back to the same reactor. The benefit here is that Plutonium would never be transported on our roads and highways. The Plutonium would never leave the high radiation area of the IFR complex, and hence the design was resistant to Plutonium diversion. Add to that, as Dr. Till states, one can't make nuclear weapons out of IFR Plutonium, and the concept is proliferation resistant.
The anti-nukes oppose MOX and Plutonium recycling because it is the solution to the problem they complain about the most, which is the existence of Plutonium. If you shutdown reactors, or stop using MOX; the Plutonium is not going to magically go away. What do we do with Plutonium that the anti-nukes tell us we can't store if the anti-nukes won't let us burn it? Evidently they haven't thought that far ahead.
I've run into people like this our PATHETIC MORON before. Before I retired, I was a Professor of Physics at MIT. I didn't run into anyone like this MORON at MIT. MIT students are not MORONs. However earlier in my teaching career, I used to teach Physics at the University of Michigan. I used to teach the "Physics for Poets" class; that is the course in Physics for non-science majors.
I used to run into people like our MORON all the time. I would explain the Physics of why nuclear reactors can't explode like nuclear explosions. This contradicts the dogma that the anti-nukes have been told by the anti-nuke leaders. These MORONS just couldn't accept proven science that contradicted their anti-nuke dogma. It was more important to be "good little anti-nukes" than it was to get a good scientific education.
Dr. Patrick Moore left Greenpeace because he ran into the same type of dogmatic "thinking". From Dr. Moore's testimony to the US Congress, here is what he had to say about his former Greenpeace associates:
http://www.greenspirit.com/logbook.cfm?msid=70
"They are anti-science and technology. All large machines are seen as inherently destructive and unnatural. Science is invoked to justify positions that have nothing to do with science. Unfounded opinion is accepted over demonstrated fact."
Dr. Moore's last line above perfectly describes our local PATHETIC MORON and all anti-nukes like him. There is absolutely nothing that one can say to make them see scientific truth. They "think" with their politics instead of their brains. They want something to be true because it fits their political agenda. All the science in the world that says it is false is to be ignored by them. Their political agenda is more important than anything science has to say.
That's why they are incurable PATHETIC MORONS.
Rational discourse and expert scientific teaching is wasted on them. It's "casting pearls before swine."
As a scientist, I find it hard to deal with those who reject science and prefer their own self-righteous, self-serving, narcissism.
Rude Dog Lies and Loses AGAIN ...
"recycling of spent nuclear fuel presupposes that more nuclear reactors will be built and the use of nuclear fuel will expand"
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201208250071
Ministry to amend law to bury nuclear waste without reprocessing
August 25, 2012 By TORU NAKAGAWA/ Staff Writer
However, the recycling of spent nuclear fuel presupposes that more nuclear reactors will be built and the use of nuclear fuel will expand. There will no longer be a need to recycle spent fuel if the government decides to scrap all nuclear reactors by 2030. The necessity of recycling will also diminish if the government decides to gradually reduce nuclear power to 15 percent or to maintain its share at 20-25 percent.
Construction of the reprocessing plant in Rokkasho began in 1993, followed by a succession of failures during trial runs. Full operation of the facility is nowhere in sight, which has put the entire nuclear fuel cycle policy at an impasse. About 14,000 tons of spent fuel has piled up on the grounds of nuclear power plants across Japan. Storage spaces are expected to reach full capacity within four years at some nuclear plants if they continue to operate.
Poor logic and reasoning in evidence
Once again, the above poster demonstrates his / her lack of reasoning powers. The poster claims that since the Japanese had originally planned for an expansion of their nuclear power program, and sized their reprocessing facilities accordingly, that this means that reprocessing requires an expanding program.
The above poster is making an unwarranted generalization from a specific example. Additionally, this is not an exclusionary case where a single counter-example disproves a claim. This poster erroneously attempted that false logic before.
Let us consider an analogy. Suppose your local hospital joins with the medical school of a local university. The vision is to build a new hospital in your community that will also provide teaching opportunities for the medical school. Because of the prestige of the medical school, it is envisioned that this new hospital will attract patients, not just from the local community, but from neighboring communities, the rest of the state, and even from other states. Therefore, a rather large hospital is planned and built.
Then there is a scandal at the medical school. It turns out that many of the professors don't have the credentials that they claimed they had. The university decides to disband the medical school.
Without the medical school and its drawing power; the new hospital is over-sized for what will now be just a community hospital.
The "logic" of the above poster would conclude that hospitals can't be built for just a single community. The only way to build a hospital is for an expanded community including people from other states.
The "logic" is flawed. Of course hospitals can be built to serve just the local community. A multi-state draw is not required. That draw was part of the original vision in the hypothetical case above, and when it didn't pan out, the community was left with an over-sized hospital.
Likewise, Japan had originally planned for an increased demand for reprocessing / recycling of MOX. In light of the Fukushima event, Japan is curtailing its use of nuclear power, so the envisioned demand won't materialize.
That doesn't mean that reprocessing requires an expansion of the nuclear power plant fleet.
Argonne National Lab at its Argonne-West site on the campus of the Idaho National Lab demonstrated a reprocessing / recycling facility used for a single reactor; Experimental Breeder Reactor II (EBR-II) which also became the prototype for the Integral Fast Reactor (IFR) that Dr. Till spoke of in the above interview with PBS's Frontline:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews/till.html
For decades, Argonne carried out a reprocessing / recycling program for this ONE reactor. That story has actually been chronicled in a book by Charles E. Stevenson:
The EBR-II Fuel Cycle Story
by Charles E. Stevenson
http://www.new.ans.org/store/i_300022
This classic text used to be offered by Amazon, but no longer:
http://www.amazon.com/Ebr-II-Fuel-Cycle-Story/dp/0894480316
However, it can be perused at Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_EBR_II_fuel_cycle_story.html?id=...
The whole reason for reprocessing / recycling is to burn up the Plutonium so that you don't have to store it for a long time. All one needs to do is to size the facilities to meet the demand.
Japan is "changing horses in mid-stream". They sized and built facilities for a much larger expanded nuclear power program. With their retrenchment in light of Fukushima, that program has more capacity than what the newer smaller program will demand.
However, those facilities will still be useful for burning up Plutonium as long as Japan has some nuclear power facilities.
If Japan shutters all their reactors; then there will be no reactors to burn up the Plutonium.
What is Japan going to do with the Plutonium they have on hand, which is not going to magically disappear when they shutter their reactors.
The anti-nukes and the Japanese politicians have thought that far ahead.
Busted back to kindergarten
Rude Dog, exhibits ZERO academic honesty, candor, scientific integrity and/or honor; IMHO.
There are penalties available … IF we discover his identity and IF he actually possesses any academic credentials, (which is doubtful, again IMHO).
http://www.yorku.ca/tutorial/academic_integrity/polpoints3.html
http://www.plagiarismadvice.org/documents/amber/FinalReport.pdf
http://mail.baylorschool.org/~jstover/plagiarism/consequences.htm
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19770607&id=OsFaAAAAIBAJ&s...
When verified, violations of academic honesty may lead to the following penalties – imposed singly or in combination depending on the severity of the offence:
•Written disciplinary warning or reprimand
•Required completion of an academic honesty assignment
•Make-up assignment, examination or rewriting a work, subject to a lowered grade
•Lower grade on the assignment, examination or work
•Lower grade in the course
•Failure in the course
•Permanent grade of record
•Notation on transcript
•Suspension from the University
•Expulsion from the University
•Withholding or rescinding a York degree, diploma or certificate
If the offence is a second or subsequent one for the student, or is in combination with another offence, the Senate Policy recommends consideration of a severe penalty.
…
Rude Dog, IFF I served on your academic review committee, we would bust you back to kindergarten.
Evidently you haven't been paying attention!!
I've stated this numerous times on this forum - I'm RETIRED
I no longer have to deal with review committees - that whole process is behind me.
My only job now is to cash my pension check.
DUMB IDIOT FLUNKS
The DUMB IDIOT FLUNKS.
Who cares what the Japanese policy is, and why the Japanese will or / will not reprocess.
I'm am talking what the science says.
The science gives a country more options than what the Japanese choose to do.
Evidently our IDIOT MORON didn't read the interview with Dr. Till that I posted. How typical. As I stated, the IDIOT MORONS refuse to learn.
The Japanese have failed to operate their reprocessing facilities, and even had a criticality accident in one. However, it is illogical to conclude from their failure that reprocessing can't be done efficiently and safely. The French effort is the counter-example to that.
When anti-nuke IDIOT MORONS in my classes at University of Michigan acted like the above poster, I was left with one choice of action.
They FLUNKED
The above IDIOT also FLUNKS
Academic Honesty
Rude Dog,
When faculty members are caught in flagrant violations of academic honesty, they are FIRED.
Taxpayers want their money's worth and HABITUAL LIARS such as the Rude Dog DESERVE to be 'sent down the road kicking a can'.
Kiss my ruddy red, you lying POS
How about some proof?
Moron - you keep accusing Rude Dog of lying and you threaten legal and academic sanctions against him. However, you have yet to prove your case that he is lying. Just prove to us that Rude Dog is lying about chemical explosives containing their own oxygen supply and that a chemical explosive needs to obtain oxygen from the local environment in order to support combustion as you stated in a previous post. Until then; you haven't proved your case that Rude Dog is lying; and hence your words ring hollow.
You haven't been paying attention!!!
I've told you multiple times - I'm RETIRED
Secondly, I was a Professor for MIT - which is a PRIVATE university. Taxpayer money is not involved.
Michigan
In addition to MIT, I was at the University of Michigan for the first few years of my career. But that was a LONG time ago.
Rude Dog ~10th grade dropout +/- a semester
Rude Dog,
So you say, over and over, ad infinitum ad naseum
However, the claims are not credible.
I have you pegged for a HS dropout, at about the 10th grade level.
Give or take a semester
But it is not your lack of formal training that makes you a liar, and an impudent fool. Those are apparently genetically hard-wired.
You dirty ole egg suckin hound
Credibility?
Moron - it is you that lacks credibility here. Rude Dog has bested you at every turn. You claimed explosives need oxygen from the atmosphere, and Rude Dog showed us that chemical explosives have their own oxygen supply built in. You claimed that radiation emission was all independent at individual frequencies like in LEDs, and Rude Dog showed us that thermal radiation or incandescence coupled frequencies together. Each time, Rude Dog was shown to be correct, and you were wrong. Now you claim that Rude Dog is a 10th grade dropout and inferior to you in intellect. Pardon me, but based on the above; that is just plain laughable in the eyes of any intelligent reader. You just can't get beyond your own arrogance and self-righteousness in order to put forth a cogent argument. In addition, you somehow think you are "winning". That is your own delusion. You have zero credibility.
36% Thyroid Neoplasms
Do 36% of Denver Kids have abnormal thyroid growths (neoplasms), from radionuclide uptake?
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/36-percent-fukushima-children-have...
NOPE, or perhaps we WOULD evacuate Denver.
Hormesis is LUNACY! Promotion of hormesis, by 'radiation experts' is tantamount to MURDER most foul.
IMHO
No, a Little Radiation Is NOT Good For You
http://economics-config-tags.blogspot.com/2012_03_01_archive.html
Economics :
Government scientists and media shills are now "reexamining" old studies that show that radioactive substances like plutonium cause cancer and arguing that exposure to low doses of radiation is good for us (a theory called "hormesis"). It is not just bubbleheads like Ann Coulter and pro-nuclear hacks like Lawrence Solomon are saying it as well. In virtually every discussion on the risk of nuclear radiation, someone post comments arguing that a little radiation makes us healthier.
To clarify the question of whether atomic bomb survivors have enhanced or reduced life expectancy, Drs. John B. Cologne and Dale L. Preston from the Radiation Effects Research Foundation, Hiroshima, Japan, studied 120,321 survivors and estimated their radiation exposure and mortality rates after 45 years of follow up. They report in the July 22nd issue of The Lancet that median life expectancy fell by about 1.3 years per Gy of estimated radiation dose, and declined faster at higher doses. At doses below 1 Gy, median life expectancy fell by about 2 months, while exposures of greater than 1 Gy resulted in a median loss of life of 2.6 years. Drs. Cologne and Preston estimate that at a dose of 1 Gy, 60% of those exposed died from solid cancer, 30% from illnesses other than cancer, and 10% from leukemia.
"These results are important in light of the recent finding that radiation significantly increases mortality rates for causes other than cancer," they write.
A large study of bone cancer in survivors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima published in March of this year also showed no hormesis, but rather increased cancer risk even at low doses. (See this and this for more evidence that low levels of radiation can cause cancer.)
http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&id=371&month=07&s=8&ss...
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11340&page=332
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/03/will_radiation_hormesis_prote...
http://www.nirs.org/press/06-30-2005/1
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/03/comparing-japans-radiation-releas...
http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/docs/source-management/csfinallongtakeshi.pdf
http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/plutonium.pdf
Brief Pause for Scientific DATA
Brief Pause for Scientific DATA
Endless … Psycho-Babble, Weak-BS & Blame-the-Victim-Drivel
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120912a7.html
Wednesday, Sep. 12, 2012
Brief Pause for Scientific DATA …
In Koriyama, Fukushima, the weight of about 30 4-year-olds was recorded until they turned 5. It was found that their weight increased at an average annual rate of 2.4 kg before the disaster struck, but the annual rise shrank to 1.5 kg afterward. Pediatrician Shintaro Kikuchi, 42, of Koriyama, who conducted the study, warned this is a clear sign something abnormal is occurring.
End, Science Pause: Return to Psycho-Babble, Weak-BS & Blame-the-Victim-Drivel
Back in the day, a classmate suffered from peptic ulcer.Back then, about when DIRT was invented, peptic ulcers were considered a psychobabble disease, related to ‘can’t handle emotional-stress’. Guess what … he was ‘underweight’, and under ‘counseling’. Today, peptic ulcers are generally attributed to Helicobacter pylori infection and treated with antibiotics. Reported cure rates for H. pylori range from 70 - 90% after antibiotic treatment. The standard treatment regimen uses two antibiotics and a PPI:
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_guidelines_treating_peptic_ul...
Ann Coulter - Jim Jones & Dick Muller
Ann Coulter OPENLY promotes hormesis
Professor Richard Muller obliquely implies & supports hormesis
"Some scientists interpret this as evidence that low levels of radiation induce cancer resistance; I think it is more likely that lifestyle differences account for the disparity."
Jim Jones promoted 'Purple KoolAid'
Perhaps DickMuller will also support and favorably consider that poison as well.
Drink Mor Purple Koolaid
or
... Some international theologions favor consumption of Purple KoolAid ...
Note the DATE ... 2012_03_01 ... (March 3, 2012)
The rebuttal to Herr Doktor Professor DICK, was written months before Dr. Dick joined the Hormesis Brigade. So, rather obviously, I personally PARSED NOTHING! I merely cut and pasted the disingenious statement of Dr. DICK, in proximity to the earlier written, archived statement.
Nothing to write. Nothing to PARSE. If the shoe fits, wear it.
A Rude Dog ... but not a smart dog!
From the Archives, of March 2012, the Phoenix arises and craps all over Doktor DICK.
http://economics-config-tags.blogspot.com/2012_03_01_archive.html
Government scientists and media shills are now "reexamining" old studies that show that radioactive substances like plutonium cause cancer and arguing that exposure to low doses of radiation is good for us (a theory called "hormesis"). It is not just bubbleheads like Ann Coulter and pro-nuclear hacks like Lawrence Solomon are saying it as well. In virtually every discussion on the risk of nuclear radiation, someone post comments arguing that a little radiation makes us healthier.
WRONG AGAIN, MORON!!!!
The retort from our local anti-nuke MORON is:
The rebuttal to Herr Doktor Professor DICK, was written months before Dr. Dick joined the Hormesis Brigade. So, rather obviously, I personally PARSED NOTHING! I merely cut and pasted the disingenious statement of Dr. DICK, in proximity to the earlier written, archived statement.
Evidently, our local anti-nuke MORON "thinks" ( term used loosely ) that his cut / past job absolves him of all responsibility for the content of same.
Our local anti-nuke MORON "believes" ( term again used with trepidation since believing requires an active mental process ) that he is to be held blameless if the content merely passes through his computer's cut/paste buffer without passing through his brain.
Well, at least that part is understandable. Things could get lost in the great void that constitutes the brain of our local anti-nuke MORON.
Additionally, our local anti-nuke MORON makes this claim against hormesis:
It is not just bubbleheads like Ann Coulter and pro-nuclear hacks like Lawrence Solomon are saying it as well. In virtually every discussion on the risk of nuclear radiation, someone post comments arguing that a little radiation makes us healthier.
The poor PATHETIC LITTLE MORON doesn't realize that there is some good science behind the claims of hormesis. The response of living cells to ionizing radiation is much more complex than our little moron can fathom.
It has been scientifically demonstrated that living cells demonstrate what is called an "adaptive response" to radiation. Courtesy of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's "Science and Technology Review" of July/August 2003:
https://www.llnl.gov/str/JulAug03/Wyrobek.html
Low-Dose Exposure Can Protect
The team also discovered that the human lymphoblastoid cells exhibit what is called an adaptive response to ionizing radiation. An extremely low dose (also called a priming dose) appears to offer protection to the cell from a subsequent high dose (2 grays) of ionizing radiation. The degree of protection was measured by the amount of reduced chromosomal damage. A priming dose of 0.05 gray, administered about 6 hours before the high dose, can reduce chromosomal damage by 20 to 50 percent, compared with damage to cells that were not exposed to the priming dose.
Pretreatment with a low dose of ionizing radiation sets the cell up to better survive a much higher dose of radiation. A tiny stress apparently helps a cell get ready for a bigger stress,? says Coleman. About 200 genes were found to be associated with adaptive response in the human lymphoblastoid cells. Of these, about half were turned on, and half were turned off. ?We want to know what genes and pathways are associated with adaptation. Is the adaptive response similar to the low-dose response? We don?t yet know.
Coleman says that adaptive responses were first reported in the early 1980s, although many scientists doubted the accuracy of the reports. ?Now people are saying this effect happens throughout nature, including in plants. Regulatory agencies are convinced these effects do happen and that they may play a role in human health.”
In essence, living cells exhibit a response that is not unlike that of the immune system when one is given a vaccination. After all, living cells do have a DNA damage repair mechanism that is well documented in the scientific community.
There is scientific evidence of a hormesis like effect, and the proponents of the theory are not making it up out of "whole cloth" without any substantiation. Of course, the anti-nukes believe it is totally fabricated, because that's what they do.
Hormesis HorseCHIT
Rude Dog
PLEASE keep up your advocacy of HORMESIS. A purer example of AGENDA based 'science' could NOT be imagined.
Your machine-like ignorance is appauling to all thinking/feeling members of the human species.
Your dishonor is only exceed by your lack of empathy.
You are a NATURAL for guard duty at a concentration/extermination camp.
Your vapid LYING does FAR more damage to the nuclear power industry than any reasonable opponent of the industry could ever accomplish.
Keep It Up
LOL
Poor PATHETIC MORON - that reading comprehension thing again.
Once again, our PATHETIC anti-nuke MORON can not parse the English language.
I am NOT "advocating" hormesis. I am merely accurately reporting that the science tells us there is a response in living tissue that is something like the hormesis theory.
If we had MORONS like you back in the 1950s advocating medical policy, mankind would have never triumphed over polio. We would have numbskulls like you saying that we should never put killed or crippled polio virus in our bodies and Dr. Jonas Salk and Dr. Albert Sabin proposed. You would have said, "Horrors. Injection or ingestion of polio virus was to be avoided, at all cost".
Of course, half a century ago; more intelligent minds than our local muddlehead, prevailed, and the injection / ingestion of polio virus was exactly what brought the curtain down on the medical scourge that was polio.
You keep claiming that I'm lying; but you have provided ZERO documentation of any falsehoods that I have told. I, on the other hand; have provided documentation for what I have reported, like the LLNL article.
I hope you keep up what you are doing; which is to "think" ( term used advisedly ) with your politics instead of your brain, because quite frankly; you don't possess a working example of the latter.
How would science / medicine have progressed to their current state of the art if we had people like our PATHETIC MORON to obstruct the way in the past. Perish the thought.
POOR / DISMAL READING COMPREHENSION
Why do the anti-nukes always seem to have such poor reading comprehension. They are absolutely DISMAL at parsing the English language.
Such is the case with the poster above, who claims that Professor Muller supports the hormesis hypothesis based on the following excerpt from his WSJ article:
"Some scientists interpret this as evidence that low levels of radiation induce cancer resistance; I think it is more likely that lifestyle differences account for the disparity."
Shall we deconstruct this sentence which appears to be beyond the reading comprehension ability of the anti-nukes?
First the good Professor states:
"Some scientists interpret this as evidence that low levels of radiation induce cancer resistance;..
What the Professor says above is true; there are some scientists that interpret the data as evidence of hormesis. However, in this clause, Professor Muller is telling what some scientists say. He is NOT telling us what his interpretation of the data is.
The good Professor then continues:
...I think it is more likely that lifestyle differences account for the disparity."
Here the good Professor is telling us his interpretation. Counter to the ill-considered and FAULTY interpretation of the above poster; Professor Muller is giving us an alternate interpretation of the data. Professor Muller is telling us that in his opinion, the data is explained by differences in lifestyle, as opposed to evidence of hormesis like some scientists conclude.
Professor Muller is clearly telling us that he is NOT one of the scientists that believes in hormesis. He has an alternate explanation, in lieu of hormesis. However, the above anti-nuke poster cites this passage as evidence of Professor Muller's support for hormesis, and then proceeds to ridicule him.
WRONG!!!! STUPID!!!! DUMB!!!!
The above pinhead is attempting to ridicule Professor Muller for his stance on hormesis, which the above poster MISSTATES!!
The only thing that should be ridiculed is the above poster's parsing of the English language. Such a poor showing demonstrating skills that would be considered as poor for a student in elementary school. But here is the idiot anti-nuke, as always, trumpeting his/her ignorance and poor reasoning skills on a public forum, for all to see.
When will the anti-nukes realize that we really aren't interested in their poor parsing of the English language and the false controversies engendered by same?
The stupidity of the anti-nukes is only matched by their self-righteousness and what they believe is their God-given right to complain about anything and everything regardless of correctness, that is uttered by those that are telling us the truth about nuclear energy.
Rude Dog Returns
Rude Dog the Robotic Canine
Hey Rude Dog, can we get you some cheese to go with that WhINE?
What interests the Rude Dog is immaterial.
Oh and by the way ...
How are you coming with your Nuke-Energy/Power assignment, smart guy?
Rude Dog, Go dig up a bone.
The anti-nuke MORON is alive and well...
I told you in a previous post that I'm not researching terms that
YOU MADE UP!!!!.
There is ZERO mention of "energy phase" or "power phase" in connection with nuclear explosions; other than the dismal tripe you posted on this forum.
One of which you describe as a "spike / singularity". There's no "singularity" in a nuclear explosion!! Yes - it happens fast - within microseconds; but that is hardly the case for a singularity. Lots of things happen fast; and there is no singularity in either space or time.
I'm not falling for your "snipe hunt"; because the terms above are NOT used by scientists in the field. They exist ONLY in what you use in lieu of a brain; and why anyone would go there is beyond me.
Keep RANTING
Rude Dog, the Rogue Robot
The Rude Dog, Rogue Robot continues his attempts to 'muddy the waters', by confusing 'physical events' and mathematical models. The Rude Dog is disingenious to the point of stupidity, in this diatribe.
The general public is quite familiar with explosions, whether they be steam, chemical, electrical plasma and/or nuclear. Most of the bloggers on BRAWM have sufficient scientific, medical and/or engineering backgrounds to effectively traverse the distinctions between events, processes and analysis. It is not entirely clear that the Rude Dog has, or has ever had that capability.
Rithmatic. models, measurements, meters and analylytic tools do not 'Go Boom'. These are our attempts to gather useful information ABOUT explosions, implosions and/or other sudden changes.
Singularities, Impulses, Delta Dirac and the rest of the mathematical constructs MODEL reality, they do not COMPRISE reality.
The Rude Dog appears to have contracted rabies and is biting himself.
Black Pot meet Black Kettle
Here we have our PATHETIC anti-nuke MORON complaining about mathematics.
First, I brought up the mathematical concept of a singularity ONLY because that is how the MORON described the "energy phase" that he wants me to research.
For the umpteenth time; the only references to "energy phase" and "power phase" that the MORON wants me to research are in his/her own posts on this forum. One of which he/she describes as a "singularity".
That's the only reference I can find as to what this "energy phase" is; and I show that calling it a singularity is nonsense.
Now, the PATHETIC MORON chastises me for using HIS/HER OWN definition.
Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Little MORON; why don't you go play someplace harmless; and quit wasting Internet bandwidth and forum disk space.
For Sale
Rocket Fuel
Fresh From Fukushima, Pu238 aerosol breathing kits for Hormesis 'True Believers.
Join Dr. DICK, Ann Coulter and Rude Dog.
The DEMAND is overwhelming.
Get in line.
Vacuous snide remarks in lieu of science and information
Even the causal reader can see that I provide good scientific information, complete with references; to back up my statements, contentions, and opinions.
Our local PATHETIC anti-nuke MORON can only post childish retorts like those above postulating the existence of "Pu-238 aerosol breathing kits".
Really, this is a forum hosted by an academic department at a University; and we get CHILDISH posts like the above.
I think it is high time for the "child" to go play somewhere else.
Come on, Dog ...
ya gotta admit that the Pu breathing kits thing was pretty funny.
By the way, is that (fine) anti-nuke getting under your skin a lil?
Mike B.
Not at all.
Mike B.
Stupid people don't get under my skin.
However, as a former educator ( I was a Professor of Physics ), it is just plain SAD that some people can ignore good science when it contradicts their own self-serving political dogma.
Attn: Dick, Report to aisle 5 for radiation cleanup
Attention, Professor Muller: Report to aisle 5 for radiation cleanup
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/03/18/attention-an...
Observations
Opinion, arguments & analyses from the editors of Scientific American
Attention, Ann Coulter: Report to aisle 5 for radiation cleanup
By Philip Yam | March 18, 2011 | 50
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/2227
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/4558
2nd Request
Attn:
Doctor Dick, to aisle 5 for radiation cleanup, 2nd Notice
ASAP
I wonder why the "real
I wonder why the "real scientist" forgot to mention whether the 0.1rem in Japan is per year? Or per hour? Also, where are his sources?
POOR READING COMPREHENSION is in evidence...
The above poster states:
I wonder why the "real scientist" forgot to mention whether the 0.1rem in Japan is per year?
However, at the beginning of the 2nd paragraph; in fact, it is the title sentence of that paragraph; we see that Professor Muller wrote:
The International Commission on Radiological Protection recommends evacuation of a locality whenever the excess radiation dose exceeds .1 rem per year.
So the above poster arrogantly makes the totally vacuous claim that the "real scientist forgot to mention whether the 0.1 rem in Japan is per year".
Careful reading shows that the good Professor used the proper units.
It's the above poster that made the elementary school level MISTAKE of not reading the article carefully.
The good Professor is correct, and the anti-nukes once again conclusively demonstrate their inferior intellect - they can't even read correctly. Typical anti-nuke at play.
NOT worth the read
Garbage In = Garbage Out ... (GIGO)
The SUBJECT matter is vacuous.
I do not blame the earlier reader for quickly dismissing this kind of trash-talk. Scarcely rates a comment, except as a WARNING to the unwary.
Nutty as the Unibomber rants, or the screed of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Hinkley's love letters about Jodie Foster are comparable. Not worth a casual read, much less a detailed study/rebuttle. Who gives a crapola about the units, when the general subject matter is so totally out of the real world? In your guts you KNOW they are nuts.
Similarly these unrealistic nuke apologetics, sometimes exceed the bounds of serious review.
Absolutely NONE
None of the Hiroshima residents at ground zero died of cancer or complications of diabetes.
They simply vaporized.
Thus, perhaps Dr. Muller would reckon an atomic bomb to be an excellent preventive measure and treatment for diabetes and/or cancer.
Such statistics and arguments simply CANNOT be taken seriously.
Oh and they are not funny.
The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs...
The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were not a preventative measure for treating diabetes and/or cancer. They were never meant to be.
They were meant as a way to bring down the curtain on a terrible war started by the Japanese and their allies.
In that respect, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs accomplished EXACTLY what they were meant to accomplish.
Roger That
Agreed,
The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs accomplished EXACTLY what they were meant to accomplish.
No argument about that.