One more OCD question
Hi BRAWM team:
I am happy to report that my client is doing markedly better. Going in the rain, etc, touching things that were made in Japan. Yay! We were talking about future plans and OCD work. One of my client's concerns have to do with the instability of reactor 4 and if there was another earthquake how much of a release to the west coast there would/could be. Since this isnt my area of expertise, I thought I would ask the experts again. The long term goal is for her to feel ok and settled on the west coast even if there was another disaster, but it is nice to have a realistic appraisal of the danger/not danger that we can refer to.


I bet this so called
I bet this so called "therapist isnt one at all, but a plant. This entire thread is designed to advance the nuke armegaddon industry lie that fear of radiation poisoning = mental insanity. This sort of tactic has been very well documented by the peerless Internet journalist Jim Stone, freelance journalist in his many thorough investigations into the criminal allyance between drug companies and the nuke power industry.
Everything this plant sais is suspect. He may be Cromack actually.
Yup most odd and
Nice diagnosis...therapist mentions enenews as "Enenews is pretty much like a nightmare as a therapist since it feeds my clients fears.". Good grief there was a valid concern and there still is ...as a therapist you can read attached link complements of enenewes and see mabye your " client " concerns are real ...
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/04/ron_wydens_nuclear_f...
"The senator is not typically alarmist. But his field notes, followed by letters to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Energy Secretary Steven Chu, signal alarm. They paint a picture of extreme nuclear vulnerability, especially in Reactor No. 4, inactive at the time of the quake and tsunami but wrecked by explosion. The reactor now warehouses Fukushima's hottest inventory of radioactive fuel rods in a seismically jittery part of the world. "
This senator has no idea what
This senator has no idea what he is talking about. He is as ignorant about radioactivity and nuclear energy as the rest of the public. Fears a "lethal risk" from a spent fuel pool losing water. That is far from true. Enenews has misinformation in every single article.
There is a valid concern. I
There is a valid concern. I do not deny that. What is problematic is if a person spends hours a day on enenews and the like instead of doing their job/social activities. I am not trying to convince that my client that radiation isnt dangerous. I am trying to convince my client that some of her avoided activities and compulsions are unwarranted and not actually helping her to stay safe.
wow. I assure you. I am a
wow. I assure you. I am a therapist. I work with all kinds of OCD. Radiation fears arent the typical concern I see, but it certainly falls under the umbrella of contamination concerns.
Not A BRAWM member...
But my 2 cents....
If the #4 SFP goes down, west coast USA will receive much more fallout that they did from the previous releases. Also, it is very likely that such a collapse would make the levels of radiation at the plant so high that people would be unable to work there at all, and the whole mess would just burn to the ground completely unmitigated. That is the worst outcome, obviously.
This is an issue of critical importance, and just because it is not part of the "consensus reality" doesn't make it any less real. So while your patient's OCD over the past release is perhaps a bit paranoid, I would say their concern over this issue is warranted.
Like I said, just my thoughts.
BC 4/19/12
I appreciate your reply. In
I appreciate your reply. In the event of a worst case scenario, what would you recommend for someone who lives on the west coast?
This is difficult. Where to
This is difficult. Where to go? We don't have passports.
Options then:
1) Hole up in the house with the big Swiss HEPA filter going in a small, safe area. Tape/plastic windows. Wait for the worst to blow over and then deal with the consequences of living in a contaminated environment.
OR
2) Put wife and kids on a plane to farthest point southeast I can. Maybe Puerto Rico or Florida. They could have a nice vacation while the worst blows over, and then we can re-assess. There would be complications here as well.
Short of the Southern Hemisphere, it would be hard to avoid all of it, so it would be all about mitigation.
One thing for sure - if there were to be a massive release, no way would we go with business as usual.
BC 4/21/12
in the first event
i quit my job and fled with family east down near gulf (frying pan into fryer?) as far possible. I have small kids. I worked at the most powerful company in the world and they had no action plan for such an event. Business as usual. Watched all the available rad data for 5 months before returning home. Gut feel...it was bad.
As someone who has had health problems, I understand without it, you have nothing. Many friends stayed behind which could have come but "loved their homes" and lives. Talking to people about the time they were back here, its very spooky. Runners getting very ill, children sick, etc etc. Related? I cant say for sure, but mass symptoms in the time frame were enough to know in my gut to this day, should #4 go down as far away, and Argentina even if a hard and difficult initial existence.
The adventure became a trip when fear subsided we were out of direct big plumes and the were more dispersed when they caught up thousands of miles more...probably one of the most memorable things ever.
Its really all about information and money.
Information: all of our human networks have connections into what is really going on when the network is big. Research and this together we can find a lot of the truth. We should always try and obtain as much truth as possible (its work), knowing sometimes the full picture is impossible. Working together, its far less work. its simply truth and anyone hiding it is doing it for selve serving reasons most likely, or what they believe to be "the right thing for x y or z" see #2
Money: lack of information is due to money and control. Evacuate the West Coast? US economy collapses. Same with Japan. The truth when revealed costs money. (corporate lawsuits, chaos etc etc). People can reproduce. You cant prove anything if it gets you ten or twenty years from now easily. I can see the need to prevent chaos, but hard working people will become sick and a strain to health system further when they simply could work elsewhere. Japan is a little more complicated. They are in a bad place.
Im curious how others think of it. You can label me a nut job, but you know what, im one nut job with a little bit less radiation and as I drove east 75% of people I met (and other Californians...) said... "I dont blame you!" It didnt take that though, it was simply gut.
Keep deluding yourself...
I would bet that in this ill-considered attempt to avoid radiation from Fukushima; that the travel to the east involved going to higher elevations as one crossed the continental divide. At the higher altitudes, there is less atmospheric shielding of the all pervasive cosmic rays.
I would bet that the increased exposure due the cosmic rays owing to the higher elevations, completely swamped the minimal benefits from being out of the Fukushima plume, that BRAWM has measured to be quite small anyway.
So this ill-considered "escape" may very well have just the opposite effect from what it was purported to accomplish.
Paranoia vs real
I'm in Seattle and believe me I was worried, especially with the "nuclear" explosion of conspiracy forums and fearmongers. It took effort to separate weeds from grains. What i found is the situation isn't good and I'm sure it will add to the general population's risk of getting cancer. Guess what though-that risk is already high, and projected to be at nearly 50% in the coming years, regardless of Fukushima. The fact that you quit your good job, the one that provided you and your family health insurance, seems like the lack of foresight. Your fearmongering friends with "mass symptoms" are partly to blame. I guarantee you - there were no mass symptoms here in Seattle, and I work and know a lot of people, with kids, runners (running in early April 2011 and nothing!), pregnant ladies who gave birth to normal babies.
I hope you can find peace in all of this. Enjoy living now and stay off Internet once in a while. It does a person good:)
Shill
Keep running, your gonna die of cancer anyway...Great advice there!
I take it you too experienced mass symptoms?
And writing this from the "safe" somewhere?
People can be sick, even
People can be sick, even DIEING, WITHOUT, having "symptoms"", YOU KNOW!!! How many "symptoms" do people who are about to die from A HEART ATTCK usually have genius? NONE RIGHT!!! MY POINT!!!
And YES, we are ALL having MASS SYMPTOMS!!! But most people are IGNORANT of what to look for and are or IGNORING it!!! The Powers That-Be DON'T want us to no that this IS A EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT!!! And the "symptoms" are ALL around us of that!!!
Diagnose THAT ya jerk!!!
Ever notice...
Ever notice the poor level of spelling and even sentence construction from the anti-nukes. They are just full of outrage without the mental competence to back any of it up.
Yes...
"In 1975 the scores in the nationwide Scholastic Aptitude Tests had dropped by the largest amount in two decades. While there had been a more or less steady decline in both the verbal and the mathematical scores since the mid-1960s, generally by no more than 2 or 3 points, the average verbal scores had suddenly dropped 10 points in a single year. By far the greatest drop (in SAT scores) between 1974 and 1976 had indeed occurred in the state with the highest levels of radio-iodine in the milk, namely Utah, and the smallest drop was recorded for the midwestern state of Ohio, largely to the south of the drifting clouds of fallout that had passed over Minnesota, Michigan, New York, southern Ontario Province in Canada and northern New England. The magnitude of the effect was difficult to believe, but here in the letter from the College Board were the hard numbers: Utah had dropped 26 points and Ohio only 2.
There was just no way that such an enormous difference in the sudden drop could be explained solely by socio-economic factors, differences in the quality of teachers, school curricula, television viewing, amount of cigarette smoking, drug use, alcohol consumption, or other gradually changing physical factors in the environment such as air pollution or pesticides.
In fact, if smoking, alcohol, and drug taking during pregnancy had been a factor, Utah, with its large Mormon population, should have declined less and not more than Ohio and New York. But it was the other way around: The population with lower cigarette consumption, alcohol, and drug problems during pregnancy had the greater decline in Scholastic Aptitude scores by many times the normal statistical fluctuation of 2 to 3 points.
Nor could differences in the genetic factors of the two populations be blamed: They were both predominantly white, and in fact the Mormons had originally come from the East and Midwest. Besides, genetic or inherited factors would lead to long-term differences, not the sudden changes that had taken place. Tragically, it now appears that we had unwittingly carried out an experiment with ourselves as guinea pigs on a worldwide scale. This discovery made me more determined than ever to do everything in my power to make sure that the terribly costly lesson would be learned before mankind would make further and perhaps more irreversible mistakes with fallout from nuclear war or nuclear reactor accidents, in which the radioactivity equivalent to a thousand Hiroshima bombs might suddenly be released over vast areas the size of entire states or nations.
But as we pointed out at the Psychological Association meeting, there was also reason for hope in the data for individual states. First of all, the test scores in Utah rebounded partially by 9 points the following year, when the nuclear test ban apparently showed its effect for the children conceived eighteen years earlier. At least some of the damage was not permanent, presumably because it affected the fetal thyroid more than the mother's, and the iodine was gone from the milk within a matter of a few months after the bomb tests ended, although damage from strontium 90 and its daughter product, yttrium 90, to the pituitary gland would continue for many years, since it had accumulated in the bones of young women for decades.
Also, it was encouraging that the average level of performance on the tests had been so much higher in Utah than in any of the three other states for which we had the data. Although California, New York, and Ohio all showed scores in 1974 that were above the U.S. average of 440, down 38 points from the maximum of 478 in 1963, Utah had by far the highest score, namely 532, compared with 459 for Ohio, 454 for New York, and 450 for California.
Thus, it appeared that given the kind of quality school system that the people of Utah had established, together with the good diet, the low amount of smoking, drug use, and alcohol consumption during pregnancy, it was possible to attain a much higher degree of performance on this type of achievement test. The potential for raising the school performance of our children in the future was therefore clearly immense if we could only learn to use our vast productive capability to provide better diets, better schools, and better prenatal care as the Mormons had been able to do. Instead we were investing more and more of our national income in gigantic nuclear reactors for both military and civilian purposes that were filling the air and drinking water with invisible radioactive poisons, destroying the most important resource of our nation, the physical and mental health of our children.
Furthermore, this high intellectual performance was achieved in Utah despite serious local pollution problems from copper smelters, large coal-burning plants, and as many automobiles per capita as anywhere else in the United States. (Neither copper smelters, coal plants, nor automobiles produce strontium 90 or iodine 131.) It was obviously not necessary to return to a primitive, nonindustrial society for people to have capable children or to live a long, healthy, and useful life. For not only did the people of Utah have children with test scores that were far above the average of the rest of the United States, but they also had among the lowest rates of heart disease and cancer in the entire nation.
Since the Mormon customs discouraged smoking, they did not experience the large synergistic multiplying factor for lung cancer that smokers experienced when the radioactive fallout arrived. Just as the uranium miners who did not smoke were better off than their coworkers who did, the Mormons were able to clear out of their lungs the fine radioactive dust particles more rapidly than those whose lung clearance was slowed down by the nicotine in cigarette smoke. Thus, their religious customs resulted in much lower amounts of both man-made and natural radioactivity staying in their lungs or entering their bloodstream, reducing greatly the risk of low-level exposure leading to rises in lung cancer, heart ailments, and other chronic diseases.
Both Bell and I were surprised by how well our rather startling hypothesis was received by the large number of psychologists who came prepared to question our theory. In the ensuing discussion, questions were raised as to whether a change in the mix of the students taking the tests might not explain a good portion of the long decline in test scores. That is, could the decline in scores be explained by the increase of students from lower-income homes who in the past would not have thought of going to college? This was indeed likely to be the case in the early years, according to some of the studies published by the Wirtz Commission, but it could not explain either the sudden sharp drop followed by a halt in the late 1970s, when the total number of students taking the tests was actually declining. Nor could an increase in the number of less well-prepared students explain the recent wholesale decline in the number of students who could score above 600 or 700 out of the possible maximum of 800 points in these tests.
It was, in fact, the extremely sharp decline in the number of very high-scoring students that presented the greatest potential problem for a society increasingly dependent on verbal and mathematical skills to run the computers, design the automated machines for the factories and farms of the future, administer an increasingly high-technology society, and operate the sophisticated electronic weapons of a modern army. Instead of 189,300 students who had been able to score above 600 in the verbal test among those born in 1952-53, there were suddenly only 110,300 for the birth years of 1957-58, a drop of 42 percent. And an even greater drop occurred for the top students on whom our society would depend for much of its new ideas, creativity, and leadership skills in the arts, the sciences, and engineering, namely those who were able to score over 700. In this category, the numbers were cut by more than half, from a high point of 33,200 born before the Nevada tests began in 1949-50 to a low of only 14,800 for those born in 1957-58, the years of the heaviest fallout from our weapons testing.
It was only too evident that if the radioactivity in the environment led to early infant mortality, childhood cancer, thyroid damage, and underweight births, then also the learning ability of the surviving children might never develop its full potential.
And it would be the steady decline in the ability to read and reason and not so much the rising cancer rates in old age that would be the real seed for the self-destruction of a modern technological society. The children that could not read or cope with mathematics and science would drop out of school and become permanently unemployable. And these young people would feel increasingly resentful toward those whom they blamed for their failure: their teachers, their parents, and their political leaders. Even worse, they would blame themselves and suffer from low self-esteem.
Many of the unemployed and discouraged young people would drift into crime, vastly raising the level of violence and fear in the cities. Not knowing what caused their problems, they would increasingly resort to drugs and alcohol to overcome their sense of failure and hopelessness, raising the rate of juvenile suicide and crime still further.
Not being aware of the subtle thyroid damage with its resultant lethargy, parents would blame the teachers, and teachers would blame the parents for the increasing loss of interest, discipline, reading ability, and general motivation of the students. Vast sums of money would be spent in efforts to help the slow learners and the many handicapped students suddenly flooding the schools, draining the resources of society at the very time when there would not be enough highly skilled, resourceful, and inventive young people produced to improve the teaching and raise the productivity of factories, businesses, and farms. At the same time, the cost of health care would spiral as more and more developed early chronic disabilities, a situation that would lead to increasing absenteeism from offices, schools, and factories, and thus further reduce the output of goods and services while expectations continued to rise.
As productivity dropped while the need for costly special education and disability payments rose, the vast amount of borrowing that government would have to do to provide for the rapidly growing number of unemployed, handicapped, and sick would drive up the rate of inflation more and more. To keep ahead of the inflation, as well as to dampen its flames, the banks would have to raise their interest rates so as not to lose money by lending. Industrial machinery could not be modernized because borrowing the money would become too costly. The factories and farms would fall still further behind in their ability to meet the growing demand for manufactured goods and food, further adding to the pressures of inflation.
At the same time, the smaller supply of capable and creative young people needed to fill the jobs as engineers, scientists, doctors, nurses, computer specialists, teachers, managers, and officers for the increasingly sophisticated factories, offices, schools, hospitals, and military services would drive up salaries, adding still more fuel to the inflationary fires. More and more plants would be forced to shut down because they could not compete with more modern factories in other countries whose young workers were more productive because these countries were not in the direct path of the fresh fallout from Nevada and therefore less heavily exposed to short-lived iodine. Also a greater fraction of the reduced supply of talented and inventive young people would be absorbed in the unproductive tasks of developing ever more complex and costly nuclear-weapons systems and reactors, thus further weakening the economic situation of the nation as it was forced to import ever larger amounts of civilian goods and machinery from other countries.
As I thought about this scenario, I wondered how much of this had already begun to happen, as juvenile crime and suicide suddenly doubled and tripled in the mid-1970s among the children born in the late 1950s all over the U.S. and in northern industrial countries, where the fresh fallout had come down most heavily. The end of weapons testing in Nevada had led to a halt in the decline of intellectual ability among those tested eighteen years later, especially those born well after 1963, when bomb testing ended. There were now fewer children born blind and deaf showing up in the statistics, and there were fewer leukemia cases, brain tumors, and suicides among children and adolescents. Fewer crimes were being committed by young people under 18 years old than during the mid-1970s, when the intellectual achievement scores had dropped most rapidly, although the latest crime statistics showed a second large jump in 1979, corresponding to the second series of heavy atmospheric bomb tests 17 to 18 years earlier in 1961-1962.
There were now also fewer who were born immature, underweight, and thus dying of chronic and infectious diseases, except near the growing number of nuclear reactors that started operating in the early 1970s.
There was to be yet another development that strongly supported the hypothesis that fallout had unanticipated effects on mental development of the young. Just six months after the meeting of the American Psychological Association in New York where we had presented our findings, another scientific meeting took place in Baltimore devoted to the biological effects of ionizing radiation. At this meeting, Dr. Charlotte Silverman of the Bureau of Radiological Health in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services presented a paper entitled "Mental Function Following Scalp X-Irradiation for Tinea Capitatis in Childhood," a condition more commonly known as ringworm of the scalp.
Dr. Silverman summarized the results of studies of two groups of children treated by means of X-rays, a method no longer used. One group of 2,215 children was followed at New York University Medical Center, and another group of 10,842 children at the Chaim Sheba Medical Center in Israel was followed over a period of 20 to 25 years, together with matched groups of non-irradiated controls. Aside from an increase in the number of brain and thyroid tumors, there was also an excess of nervous, mental and behavioral problems in the irradiated groups. As Dr. Silverman reported, "The New York investigators found a higher incidence of treated psychiatric disorders among the irradiated which persisted during an observation time of about 30 years."
For the Israeli group as originally reported by Drs. B. Modan and E. Ron at the Sixth International Congress of Radiation Research in Tokyo earlier that year, Dr. Silverman summarized the results as follows:
Several measures of brain function, mental ability and scholastic achievement demonstrate that the irradiated children suffered impairment. These findings are consistent with and extend previous findings of suggestive brain damage from radiation.
The doses to the thyroids of the children were listed as having been in the range of 6 to 9 rads, well below the doses of 10 to 60 rads received by the children of Utah from the fallout of the Nevada tests reported by Dr. C. W. Mays at the August 1963 Congressional Hearings for the children of Utah in 1962, or the 5 to 40 rads estimated by Dr. Eric Reiss for the children of the Troy-Albany area where heavy rainouts in distant areas had first been discovered.
Since the thyroid doses to the more sensitive developing fetus are generally 10 to 20 times as great as for the young infant, it was therefore not surprising that effects on brain function, mental ability and scholastic achievement should be observable for the children born in Utah and other areas subjected to bomb fallout during the years of nuclear weapons testing.
Shortly after the Baltimore meeting, the College Board sent me the SAT scores for 45 out of the 50 states up to the most recent testing period of 1978-79, 17 years after the second nuclear weapons series of tests in 1962. It was clear that this more detailed data would provide a crucial test of our prediction that there should be another sharp drop in the scores associated with the series of Nevada bomb tests, and that the greatest declines should again be observed for the western United States downwind from Nevada.
After going through the table, I saw that the answer was quickly apparent. Among all the states listed, Utah again showed the sharpest decline in the entire United States, 11 points in a single year. The declines diminished with distance away from Utah across the northern United States until they reached 5 points in New York, 3 points in Connecticut and only 1 point in Rhode Island."
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/SFchp16.html
Hmm
I am not at all claiming to be an expert in this but I find it interesting that there seems to be no mention of declining expectations in school requirements used as a possible explanation for any of these test scores.
Look at what was expected of a student by Jr. High in the 50's and look at what we require now. Heck, read The Little House on the Prairie books. Look at what was required of a grade school child back then compared to what teenagers are required to do in High School now?
I have kids in my High School Bible study class who do not know what the Holocaust, the Black Plague or the Great Depression are. I have seen the homework that my nieces and nephews in 1st, 2nd and 4th grade are bringing home, compared with what I was required to do in that same age group 24 years ago and it's depressing. And that does not say anything really for the current generation because when I was in grade school, it was standard practice for the students to come back to school having completed NO homework (due to a COMPLETE lack parental involvement) the evening before. This resulted in those of us who HAD completed our homework sitting around at our desks or being sent outside to play, while the majority of the day was spent catching up from the day before. At the end of the 4th grade, my mom used a standardized testing system to see where I came out (I being one of the few who was made to do my homework and complete all assignments) and I tested around mid-3rd grade school year.
This was 22 years ago. Only imagine how much worse the standards have gotten since then. Please understand, I am not blaming the poor teachers and staff at the schools. As was made evident by my mom's personal involvement in my class and from personal experience with teachers since then; their hands are tied. They have to teach with the curriculum provided and how to you force parents (who would rather the public school system raise and teach their child about EVERYTHING) to get involved or enforce homework requirements within the home?
My parents ended up pulling me out of school and homeschooling me because of these problems. I graduated High School early and scored high on my tests.
I always swore (due to wanting to go to dances, have school friends, the desire to be in a classroom setting, etc.) that I would not personally choose to home school my children but since graduating, having worked for the last ten years with Jr. High and High School students, working with the local private school, and seeing what is being sent home with kids now of multiple ages, I am seriously considering home schooling my own children. I am afraid that in our current school system, they will end up just as ill prepared for the world and for college as a lot of the students I am seeing. I am a firm believer in learning from past mistakes and I do not approve of cutting school music programs, sport programs, libraries and cutting down on history education to save money and to spend more time on computer skills. My 6 year old does not need to learn how to type out a report. He needs to learn the English language and proper grammatical skills.
Call me crazy. A lot of other people already have. But I find it interesting that the older I get, the more we become aware of what now consists of the public school system and the more people around me who seem to be taking a stand and a personal interest again in what their children are being taught (or not), how many of my anti-home schooling friends (or ones that always playfully made fun of me for being the home school-er in the group) are now seriously considering home schooling (or parent-involved private school) for their children?
A staggering amount.
- JMS
BROTHER!!!
Ratical.org is the website of Mangano.
BRAWM and others have shown here how Mangano fudges his studies to prove what he wants.
The Partial Test Ban that banned atmospheric tests was in 1962. The children that were born post atmospheric tests were 17 in 1979.
Intelligent people should disregard the above as more blatant propaganda from the proven data fudgers at ratical
Somebody - get this one a chill pill
Maybe your uncontrolled anger IS a symptom of radiation poisoning o_O
Nah, it's all those higgins-enenews influences that made you afraid, very afraid - and blinded. I've been on this forum since the getgo and there was so much data, scientific info showcasing this event, although bad is not an apocalypse, yet people like you choose to ignore it and believe in their fear.
In all seriousness though: fear is number one debilitating desease, I know it from own experience. When Fuku blew, I was like many others, nearly OCD - monitored every bit of info, was afraid to go out or even breathe! I suffer from IBS and I got myself worried to the point of two ER trips. I had to learn to tame my fear first and only then was able to find and understand all the available data.
Again, a few on this forum reported "symptoms" of what they believed to be radiation poisoning, but here in Seattle none of my friends or coworkers had anything like it.
Shill shill shill shill shill
Shill shill shill shill shill
:( I'm sorry you feel this way
Human brain is a powerful tool. I hope you can find healing to your fear and I wish you well.