Brown's Gas and Wikipedia FRAUD
Well, Boys and Girls -
Today's topic is Brown's Gas and Wikipedia FRAUD. Actually, the FRAUD is upon Wikipedia and anyone who uses it - such as students. Here are the particulars:
Look at the following Wikipedia entry for Samuel Brown, who in 1823 built one of the earliest internal combustion engines powered by hydrogen. Brown's Gas, the explosive mixture of molecular hydrogen and molecular oxygen, is named for this fellow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Brown_(engineer)
But search for "Brown's Gas" on Wikipedia and you get redirected to "oxyhydrogen", a word that did not exist when my seventh grade science teacher demonstrated the explosive results of water electrolysis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown%27s_gas
"Brown's Gas" is simply oxyhydrogen with a 2:1 molar ratio of H2 and O2 gases, the same proportion as water. It's named after Yull Brown who claimed that it could be used as a fuel for the internal combustion engine.[14][4] It's also called "HHO gas" after the claims of fringe physicist[15] Ruggero Santilli, who claims that his HHO gas, produced by a special apparatus, is "a new form of water", with new properties, based on his (fringe) theory of "magnecules". [14]
Oxyhydrogen is also often mentioned in conjunction with vehicles that claim to use water as a fuel. The most common and decisive counter-argument against producing this gas on-board to use as a fuel or fuel additive is that the energy required to split water molecules exceeds the energy recouped by burning it.[16][4] Additionally, the number of liters per minute of gas that can be produced for on-demand consumption through electrolysis is very small in comparison to the liters per minute consumed by an internal combustion engine.[17]
And in the footnotes, the deception continues:
(...) Brown's gas — a modern chemical unicorn to rival phlogiston — in which hydrogen and oxygen are combined in a non-aqueous state called 'oxyhydrogen', in the same proportions in which they are found in water (2:1)."<\strong>
Now who could possibly be behind this FRAUD? Interests who want to crush renewable energy? Interests who don't want their Homer Simpsons to understand that "Brown's Gas" is the unwanted but all-too-plentiful byproduct of NPP electrical generation? Homer Simpsons that won't realize the inherent danger of using hydrogen as a generator coolant?
Toast Our Empire, Boys and Girls - Our Empire is Toast!
Professor Farnsworth
No Bulverisms, you say? No ad hominems, You say?
Hah! Bull****, I say!
"I decline the motive game and resume the discussion." - C. S. Lewis
I know from personal experience in seventh grade that a glass flask full of Brown's Gas will explode. Therefore, I know that anyone who claims Brown's Gas is not dangerous is either misinformed or a liar. My guess is that these idiots were misinformed:
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_18658205
My guess is that this is the work of depravedly indifferent liars (excluding commentor anon17734):
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-browns-gas.htm
And the jury is still out on the authors of this:
http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2011/11/dot-gas-order.html
Note that Brown's Gas has now been dubbed "TyLar", after Tyson Larson, who died in an earlier blast of Brown's Gas in Simi, CA. I'm guessing this is to keep first responders misinformed about Brown's Gas, which is to be feared anytime hydrogen is present. Potentially "Invisible fire", as it was referred to on the old TV show "Rescue 8", if memory serves.
Professor Farnsworth
TyLar Gas banned by DOT
The DOT has banned any transportation of TyLar Gas by an Emergency Order.. If this is the same stuff, it is too unstable to transport.
The essence of the FRAUD...
... is giving a new name, TyLar Gas, to a mixture of molecular hydrogen and molecular oxygen, that has been known to be explosive for two centuries - Brown's Gas. The lingering question is, WHO is behind this fraud? And WHY is the fraud being perpetrated?
Professor Farnsworth
Res Judicata
The Farnsworth ‘question’ has been answered.
Farnsworth
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/browns-gas-and-wikipedia-fraud.201...
Res judicata AKA RJ, res iudicata & claim preclusion
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Doctrine+of+res+judicata
Latin, A thing adjudged. A rule that a final judgment on the merits, by a court having jurisdiction is conclusive between the parties to a suit; as to all matters that were litigated or that could have been litigated in that suit.
Farnsworth
Farnsworth,
Farnsworth does NOT determine the topics for this blog. Nor do his quaint definitions of 'germane' carry any weight whatsoever, on an engineering blog.
The last couple of dozen comments by Farnsworth have been utter nonsense.
The ongoing triviality, and wrong-headedness, of these Farnsworth topics, have been demonstrated by multiple bloggers. Therefore, it is, IMHO, permissible to consider WHY Farnsworth is running such silly topics up the flagpole. No one has saluted. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that Farnsworth is WRONG; thus there a e no Bulverism fallacy, or ad hominem violations. His motives and mental faculties are thus fair-game.
Perhaps Farnsworth is:
1) deliberately wasting our time
2) cracking up
3) smoking something illegal
4) off his meds
5) stupid
6) a combination of the above
Certainly, there is no content in his recent statements worthy of consideration on an engineering blog.
Ventilated fuel tanks
MAAN (Much Ado About Nothing)
The fuel tank on my personal vehicle has a VENTILATED fuel tank.
The fuel tank on my previous automobile had a VENTILATED fuel tank.
Every fuel tank on every automobile I EVER drove had a VENTILATED fuel tank.
Gasoline is explosive. So what?
Farnsworth is wasting our time, but to what purpose, if any?
There are other, FAR more entertaining renditions of MAAN.
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/much_ado/full.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjYatNXhEBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYj-2vFLbtc
Please stick to the topic which is FRAUD -
... and historical revisionism which seems to be SOP at UCB these days.
Professor Farnsworth
Farnsworth
Farnsworth,
Farnsworth does NOT determine the topics for this blog. Nor do his quaint definitions of 'germaine' carry any weight whatsoever, on an engineering blog.
The last couple of dozen comments by Farnsworth have been utter nonsense.
The triviality, and wrong-headedness, of these Farnsworth topics, have been demonstrated by multiple bloggers. Therefore, it is, IMHO, permissible to consider WHY Farnsworth is running such silly topics up the flagpole. No one has saluted. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that Farnsworth is WRONG; thus therea re no Bulverism fallacy, or ad hominum violations.
Perhaps Farnsworth is:
1) deliberately wasting our time
2) cracking up
3) smoking something illegal
4) off his meds
5) stupid
6) a combination of the above
Certainly, there is no content in his recent statements worthy of an engineering blog.
Number 5 for me....
Number 5 for me... Farnsworth is just plain stupid.
I vote for 6) ALL of the above
It has to be All the above; with strong competition from #5
6, a combination
6, a combination of 1) Deliberate and mostly 5) STUPID
With the Colorado & Washington State legalizations, under Amendments IX and X, Toking Up is now Quasi-Legal ... hereabouts, in these formerly united states. So 3) is (mostly) out.
1) deliberately wasting our time
5) stupid
6) a combination of the above
Beware of Wisegeeks bearing LIES...
...and beware of ANYONE who claims Brown's Gas is named for Yull Brown instead of Samuel Brown
See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-browns-gas.htm
"Yull Brown first patented an electrolyzer in 1977 to utilize the power and benefits of Brown's gas. The electrolyzer is a tool that separates the oxygen and hydrogen of water by decomposing it into its separate components. Brown's gas has been introduced to manufacturers and the general public through generators which prepare the gas for welding. It is a relatively safe substance to work with. It is odorless and not poisonous when inhaled or ingested, and its cheap cost and abdundance, only the price of electricity and water, make Brown's gas an available and convenient chemical for many scientific endeavors."
Anyone who believes Brown's Gas is safe to work with should read http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/san-onofre-leaking-again-10222012....
Professor Farnsworth
"It is a relatively safe
"It is a relatively safe substance to work with."
Everything that is useful is dangerous. Because everything that is useful has power and power uncontained or misapplied causes damage.
Cars are useful, yet cars kill 34000 people per year in this country.
Nothing is safe. We always have to make an adult decisions about utility versus risk.
Upon reading this, you will no longer qualify as "useful idiot":
May I refer you to Cal/OSHA's view of this topic (explosive gases) at:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/4845.html
§4845. General Precautions.
(a) Mixtures of fuel gases and air or oxygen may be explosive and shall be guarded against. No device or attachment facilitating or permitting mixture of air or oxygen with combustible gases prior to consumption, except at the burner or in a standard torch or blowpipe, shall be allowed unless approved for the purpose.
Professor Farnsworth
Excellent advice. Which is
Excellent advice. Which is why they have a pure hydrogen atmosphere without oxygen in the bearing. That prevents it from blowing up.
We have met the enemy - and they is THEY!
In this case, "THEY" refers to the Homer Simpsons all over the world who are responsible for maintaining said "pure hydrogen atmosphere without oxygen". BTW, GASEOUS hydrogen cools the generators' rotors and stators. OIL lubricates and SEALS the bearings of the generators, so the hydrogen stays where it's supposed to. This oil also allows tiny air bubbles to mix in with the "pure hydrogen atmosphere without oxygen", so it must be continuously purged "somehow". The handy reference this info came from elaborates:
"The "problem" with using hydrogen as a cooling medium is that it's explosive when mixed with air and exposed to an ignition source. However, if the purity of the hydrogen is maintained at a very high level, meaning there is very little or no air in the generator casing to mix with the hydrogen, then even if there was a "spark" there won't be an explosion."
And:
"Another important consideration is to keep the hydrogen from leaking out of the generator, mixing with air and causing an explosion- or fire hazard where it might leak out of the generator."
And:
"The oil that's used as the seal oil is generally the same lubricating oil that's used for the bearings. That oil is normally in contact with air when it's in the lube oil tank and the bearing drains. So, air (in the form of small bubbles) can be entrained in the lube oil, and when sprayed on the generator shaft that air can be liberated from the oil that flows into the hydrogen side of the seal area. That air, if not "removed" somehow, can continue to collect inside the generator casing and reduce the purity of the hydrogen, and cause a safety concern."
To recap, as long as the Homer Simpsons of the world are perfectly wise, vigilant and uncorruptible, and all necessary equipment and supplies are available and perfectly functional, and regardless of whatever Mother Nature might throw at them, hydrogen-cooled generators will be no problem - and NPP operators will make more money...
Professor Farnsworth
"Somehow" is the problem for you.
Once again "Professor" Farnsworth trumpets his ABJECT STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE" on this forum.
He keeps saying that the air must be removed from the system, "somehow"; as if this were some unsolved and vexing problem.
The technology for removing air and separating the gases is well known and has been in use for over a century. The fact that Farnsworth doesn't know how it is done is merely a testimony to the scientific IGNORANCE that he has repeatedly demonstrated on this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_separation
You jumped to the wrong conclusion (as usual)...
...All i did was bolden the word "somehow" - the choice of the word was the author of the document, which is cited as a reference for the wiki entry "Hydrogen-cooled turbo generator". If there is nothing about the NPP industry capable of causing you concern, you ought to read the inquiries from NPP techs at the web site for this reference - such as the one who wants to use site-generated hydrogen because buying "pure" hydrogen is too expensive...
Professor Farnsworth
P.S. - please activate my wiki link to "Samuel Brown", unless technical history censorship is standard UCB policy
Upon reading this, you will no longer qualify as "useful idiot":
May i refer you to Cal/OSHA's view on this topic (explosive gases) at
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/index/t8index.asp?All=4845
§4845. General Precautions.
(a) Mixtures of fuel gases and air or oxygen may be explosive and shall be guarded against. No device or attachment facilitating or permitting mixture of air or oxygen with combustible gases prior to consumption, except at the burner or in a standard torch or blowpipe, shall be allowed unless approved for the purpose.
Professor Farnsworth
Wisegeeks - a UC Berkeley Braintrust??...
Wel, well, well -
Wisegeeks appears to have been created and staffed mainly by UC Berkeley alumni. Whether they are depravedly indifferent co-conspirators out to ice alternative energy buffs or are just useful idiots remains TBD.
Professor Farnsworth
Farnsworth is 'less than forthcoming'
Methane is the economic source for H2
Methane (CH4) AKA Natural Gas, not H20 electrolysis, is the primary ECONOMIC source for hydrogen.
http://www.tbp.org/pages/publications/bent/features/sp04uhrig.pdf
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=will-cheap-natural-gas-...
The energy content of hydrogen varies from 20% to 80% of the thermal energy used to produce it, depending upon the method used and the source (i.e., water, methane, coal, etc.). Hence, both hydrogen and electricity are premium energy carriers whose use can be justified only by special benefits associated with their use. In the case of hydrogen, a special benefit is that it can be converted into electricity for transportation using fuel cells with an efficiency that is at least twice as high as the conversion in thermodynamic heat engines.
The essential components of a hydrogen economy are production of hydrogen, storage of hydrogen, distribution or transportation of hydrogen to vehicle fuel stations, dispensing of hydrogen into vehicles, and use of hydrogen in fuel-efficient engines (i.e., fuel cells rather than either internal- or external combustion engines). Each of these activities constitutes an engineering challenge.
Please stick to the topic which is FRAUD -
You know, such as why there is no link to the wiki entry for Samuel Brown.
Professor Farnsworth
Do you mean Yull Brown?
Farnsworth has the wrong Brown.
http://www.askives.com/brown-gas-wiki.html
http://www.brownsgas.ws/yull-brown.htm
Yull Brown was born in Bulgaria as Ilya Velbov.
This is merely one more entry in the LITANY of Farnsworth errata.
Fraud IS the topic
Farnsworth 'inaccuracy' is either stupidity or fraud.
The evidence points to the former, but the latter cannot be ruled out.
Farnsworth is demonstrating a stupidity level that is tantamount to fraud.
IMHO
Good lord Farnsworth, could
Good lord Farnsworth, could you at least try to come up with a semi-coherent conspiracy theory instead of this gibberish.
1. Hydrogen gas is not produced by nuclear power plants during normal operation.
2. Hydrogen gas cooling is used by turbines in all power plants whether their heat comes from splitting atoms, burning coal or natural gas, or focusing the sun's rays.
3. When was the last time you heard of an electrical turbine exploding? And what would be the effect if one did, aside from shutting down that turbine?
And how about "Not Normal"?
1. Such as, oh, Fukushima, Three Mile Island, and who knows how many abnormal 'events' which never got any publicity?
2. The folly is certainly multiplied in an NPP!
3. Reread my answers to 1 and 2.
And batten down the hatches, me hearties - the Storm of the Century approaches
the Northeast! Let's all hope for no publicity...
Professor Farnsworth
For Heaven's Sake..
Attempt to stay on topic, Farnsworth.
With regard to hydrogen being used as turbine / generator coolant; you were asked how many turbine generators had exploded. You cite Fukushima and Three Mile Island. The hydrogen explosions at Fukushima didn't come from the turbine coolant. The hydrogen at Fukushima was generated when the fuel overheated and the fuel cladding made of zirconium overheated and oxidized in the presence of water. When that happens, the zirconium atom combines with the oxygen in the water to form zirconium oxide; and that leaves behind two hydrogen atoms from the water molecule which combine to form molecular hydrogen. When that hydrogen is released from the reactor to somewhere where there is oxygen, like the interior of the secondary containment building in a BWR, and there is no way to vent the hydrogen because the Japanese BWR containment buildings were not fitted with vents; then you can get an explosive mixture that blew up the buildings.
Although hydrogen was released in the Three Mile Island accident by from the same oxidation reaction; the TMI containment totally contained this hydrogen and the pressure from a hydrogen burn in the containment. The public wasn't threatened in any way by hydrogen generated during the TMI accident.
You make an unjustified claim that there are other incidents that the public never heard of. That's a pretty lame and smarmy claim, although not out of character for the likes of you. One can bet that if the turbine generator of your local power station blew up; there would be no way to suppress the information.