1 Millioninth Gram of Inhaled Plutonium Will Give You Cancer

According to Helen Caldicott "1/1,000,000 gram of inhaled plutonium will give you cancer."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXHBEDp1oK8&feature=related

How many airplane rides is that equivalent to?
How many banana equivalencies would I have to inhale in order to be as assured of developing cancer?

Cooking Pu239/Pu240 contaminated salmon

Cooking Pu239/Pu240 contaminated salmon

Fish preparation lessons they don’t teach at the culinary institute

Plutonium, in the fish cooking spatter, may be the most deadly concern, due to LUNG cancer risk. Plutonium would presumably concentrate in the gills, urinary and alimentary tract. So normal fish pre-cooking preparation, or at least gill removal prior to cooking, would be helpful. Bleeding, filleting, gutting, washing & pre-soak would be best.

Cover tightly when cooking. Avoid energetic, spatter prone, cooking methods, such as blackened, pan fried and grilled fish. All vents should be ON!

Yum, just SMELL that fish ... cough-cough, hack-hack

Life in the NW Pacific for the next several Eons

Blaming Science...

... for our ills is like blaming sex for prostitution.

Professor Farnsworth

What has science given us?

What has science given us? For every bit of progress there is an order of magnitude more damage to the most amazing planet imaginable. What we have done to Nature just in these past 200 years is shameful beyond all reckoning. One shutters to imagine the state of Earth after another 200 years of the same plus more.

The majority of today will be viewed as sickly misguided criminals by the majority of tomorrow.

The anti-nukes show their true colors...

The anti-nukes show their true colors.

For the most part, I've found that the anti-nukes are principally those that are anti-science. Nuclear power enjoys very high support among scientists, especially physicists and engineers which are the disciplines that know the most about nuclear power.

The chorus of anti-nuclear vitriol comes principally from those that are opposed to science. It is precisely the people who don't have the necessary brain-power to understand science, who are the most opposed to it.

Perhaps they just don't like to see or acknowledge that there are people, like the scientists and engineers; who are more intelligent than they are.

Try explaining science to the anti-science types. ( You've seen some attempts on this forum. )

You'd have better luck attempting to teach quantum mechanics to the cat.

The necessary brain-power is just not there.

Ante-Science

Before science, (ante-science) human life expectancy was about 35 years. About 1/3 of women died due to complications of pregnancy and delivery, due to nescience. Smallpox, polio, tuberculosis and other little miseries stalked humanity on a daily basis.

Science is fine.

We are now post-science, in an utterly fraudulent world. Post-science is worse, because we KNOW BETTER.

Willful, applied, malignant ignorance is the Present World Order.

You are right, my friend.

You are right, my friend. More than anything else science is a big job creating industry, just another piece within the Economy Rules All mentality, true quality of life be damned.

Science is synonymous with

Science is synonymous with the fall and eradication of man, the delusional movement from paradise to desolation.

http://blogs.du.edu/today/new

http://blogs.du.edu/today/news/alumna%E2%80%99s-memoir-chronicles-secret...

The (mad) scientists left quite a legacy out there near Denver, eh.................

"Fires" ... "spray

"Fires" ... "spray 'irrigation' of radioactive waste" ... "lost" and "unsafely stored" plutonium

All that going on at the Flats while the clueless (and incredibly unlucky) sheeple in those Denver 'burbs were "eating from TV trays, tuned in to Happy Days"....................

It makes this link look like

It makes this link look like the total BS that it is:

http://www.umich.edu/~radinfo/introduction/radrus.htm

"These numbers are averages and were obtained by estimating the total dose for the US, and dividing by the number of people in the US" What a joke.

How else would you define it?

If you want an average for the entire USA; how else would you define it?

Evidently, the above poster failed elementary school arithmetic and doesn't understand how to compute "averages".

Once again, this typical IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY of the anti-nukes is demonstrated again for all to see and disparage.

Pot - meet Kettle

Mean, Mode, Median (sometimes bi-modal) ... other

Standard Deviations

Erf (error function)

If you wish to be condescending, it is helpful to exhibit some actual familiarity with the subject at hand.

More than one way to take a crack at the pedestrian word, (not term of art) AVERAGE.

If these topics are unfamiliar to you then you should remain humbly silent on arithmetic and mathematics. (Or take some classes) If they are familiar to you then you are not a candid individual.

Practice what you preach....

Mean is synonymous with average; but Median is NOT!!!

There are many, many, metrics. Harmonic mean, geometric mean are two.

However, if you want the regular arithmetic mean, i.e. "average" in terms of dose; then BY DEFINITION the average is the total dose absorbed by the population divided by the number in the population.

Since I have a doctorate in physics; I'm well versed in mathematics - WAY beyond what you obviously have studied.

Troll Alert

Rude Dude

A screamer

Loud, obnoxious & thin-skinned

Quite a combination

1/16 of a microgram

A scientist in a 1940's documentory(phoenix?, the one with Will shatter commentating all the nuke testing?) State that....
"1/16 of a microgram when inhaled or eaten would be fatal"

so that is 1/16, of one millionth, of a gram...

Jus sayin,

Inhalation - deadly, Ingestion - not so much

Inhalation - deadly, Ingestion - not so much

In Room D-119, a cheerful young chemist named Don Mastick was standing over a sink chatting with his laboratory partner, Arthur Wahl. Some of the liquid had been converted into gas and was pushing against the walls of the bottle. Other molecules were tunneling into the sides of the glass itself. Unaware of the small bomb he was holding, Mastick snapped the slender neck of the vial. It made a small, popping sound in the quiet laboratory. Instantly the material spewed out of the bottle and onto the wall in front of him. Some of the solution ricocheted back into his mouth, flooding his lips and tongue with a metallic taste.

Mastick swished the (citrate & bicarb) solutions around in his mouth and then spit them into a beaker. The first mouthful contained almost one-half microgram of plutonium. A microgram of plutonium, which is a millionth of a gram, was considered in 1945 to be the maximum amount of plutonium that could be retained in the human body without causing harm. Eleven more times at fifteen-minute intervals Mastick swished the two solutions around in his mouth and then spit them into the beaker. When the mouth washings finally were finished, Hempelmann ordered the young man to lie down on a cot. Then he pumped out his stomach several times. Carefully he transferred the stomach liquids into a tall beaker. The plutonium would have to be chemically separated from the organic matter in Mastick's stomach and mouth so it could be reused in future experiments.

After the accident, Mastick's breath was so hot that he could stand six feet away and blow the needles on the radiation monitors off scale. His urine contained detectable plutonium for many years. In one of several interviews Mastick said that he was undoubtedly still excreting "a few atoms" of plutonium but had suffered no ill effects.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/w/welsome-plutonium.html

Caldicott is WRONG

Caldicott has been telling that same old worn out LIE for years.

Usually, she states it in the form that "...a single kilogram of Plutonium dispersed into the environment will kill all life on the planet".

The truth is that due to years of atmospheric nuclear testing back in the '50s, the amount of Plutonium that is actually in the environment is about 3.5 metric tonnes, or 3,500 kilograms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium_in_the_environment

So the amount of plutonium that actually is in the environment is 3,500 times the amount that Caldicott claims would destroy all life on Earth.

We are still here. At least some of us are here; I have doubts about Caldicott and her ilk.

No matter; it appears that Caldicott has EXAGGERATED the toxicity of plutonium by at least 3,500.

here & gone

kohlab0r8

Censorship IS surrender

kohlab0hr8

Reposted - Following Removal

Collaborationnistes

The lovely and erudite constitutional attorney Ann Coulter and others have openly championed hormesis. A (very) few PhDs, journalists, politicians and nuclear power industry advocates in Japan and the USA have made similar public statements. Most, understandably prefer anonymity. Their assertion is less than irresponsible, it is dangerous. These advocates, In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), join the sullied ranks of Vichy French collaborationnistes or pétainists.

The United States National Research Council and the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements and the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) argue that there is no evidence for hormesis in humans and in the case of the National Research Council, that hormesis is outright rejected as a possibility. Therefore, the Linear no-threshold model (LNT) continues to be the model generally used by regulatory agencies for human radiation exposure. The watchword of the day is ALARA, As Low As Reasonably Achievable.

A few infamous Collaborationniste (pétainists): http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/FRANCE/French_Trials.html

War Crimes Proceedings, Collaboration Trials and Similar Proceedings Involving France in World War II

BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY Written and Compiled by David Thompson for the Grace Dangberg Foundation, Inc., copyright 1999-2002

Algarron or Algaron, Andre -- French editor in chief of the collaborationist newspaper Petit Parisien; director, radio station "Radio-Patrie" {put on trial by a French court of justice for collaboration and "intelligence with the enemy"; convicted and sentenced to death 27 Nov 1946 (NYT 28 Nov 1946:11:1); sentence commuted by French President Vincent Auriol to life imprisonment at hard labor 10 Apr 1947 (NYT 11 Apr 1947:18:5).}

Auphan, Louis -- French editor, collaborationist periodical L'Action Française {arrested and put on trial by a French court at Lyons for writings "attacking the domestic security of the state"; convicted and sentenced to 20 years imprisonment at hard labor 15 Nov 1945 (NYT 16 Nov 1945:4:3).}

Besson, Marcel -- French editor, collaborationist periodical Petit Dauphinois (Grenoble) {arrested on collaboration charges c. 5 Sept 1944 by French partisans (NYT 6 Sept 1944:3:4); subsequent disposition unknown.}

Brassilach, Robert (1909-1945) -- French journalist, novelist, historian and editor of the collaborationist periodical Je Suis Partout {arrest on collaboration charges announced by French government 15 Oct 1944 (NYT 16 Oct 1944:5:7); put on trial by a French court at Paris for collaboration; convicted and sentenced to death 19 Jan 1945 (NYT 20 Jan 1945:4:5); executed by firing squad at Fort de Montrouge, Paris 6 Feb 1945 (NYT 7 Feb 1945:7:6). (Purge pps. 137-40; Historical Encyclopedia of WWII p. 61).}

Courtine or Jullien-Courtine, Robert (?-1998) – member of the French Popular Party (Parti Populaire Français – PPF), collaborationist radio broadcaster {fled Paris 14 Aug 1944; arrested 9 Jan 1946 at Merano; put on trial by a French court for collaboration; convicted and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment at hard labor 12 Dec 1946; sentence reduced in 1948 by French President Vincent Auriol; released; editor in chief of the "Cuisine and Wines of France" ("Cuisine et Vins de France"); died 1998 (Hilberg, La destruction des Juifs d'Europe, 1988; S.K.Kitson@bham.ac.uk)

Cousteau, Pierre Antoine -- French editor and owner of collaborationist weekly Je Suis Partout {arrested by French authorities and put on trial by a French court of justice for collaboration and "intelligence with the enemy"; convicted and sentenced to death, national degradation (dégradation nationale) and confiscation of property 23 Nov 1946 (NYT 24 Nov 1946:27:6); sentence commuted 10 Apr 1947 by French President Vincent Auriol to life imprisonment at hard labor (NYT 11 Apr 1947:18:5); release rumored as a result of French President Vincent Auriol's Bastille Day amnesty 2 Aug 1953 (NYT 3 Aug 1953:5:2); released 1955; died 1958 (Purge pps. 140-1; S.K.Kitson@bham.ac.uk).}

Taittinger, Pierre -- French newspaper editor; President of the Paris Municipal Council; leader of French pre-war fascist youth organization {arrested Aug 1944 (Purge pps. 78-9); prohibited from holding public office by the French Honor Court at Paris 10 Jan 1946 (NYT 11 Jan 1946:6:6).}

Tardieu, Charles -- French reporter, Le Matin (Paris) and Grand Echo du Nord {arrested and put on trial by a French court (at Lille?) for collaboration; convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment at forced labor 1944 (NYT 16 Dec 1944:5:2).}

Zuccarelli, Georges -- French editor in chief of the collaborationist periodical Nouveaux Temps {arrested and put on trial by a French purge court on charges of collusion with the enemy; convicted and sentenced 23 Jan 1945 to 10 years imprisonment (NYT 23 Jan 1945:6:4).}

pétainists

You should publish

Assertion

Do you assert that 1.0E-6 gram of inhaled plutonium will NOT cause cancer, ever?

You should publish. May I suggest that GE sponsored, MIT 'peer review' would be an easy route to fame & fortune? Perhaps they will arrange a Nobel Prize for your 'noble' work.

I think you have a great future as a stand-up comedian. But you may not get many bookings in Japan or Ukraine. Publish & perish, will be an brand-new genre. You publish and the masses perish.

Sounds immensely profitable. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

TTFN

Contrary to the contentions of that LOON Helen Caldicott..

Contrary to the contentions of that LOOK Helen Caldicott who claims that a single kilogram of plutonium will poison the entire planet and kill all life on Earth; the amount of plutonium that is actually in the environment and that you ingest a fraction of each day; is about 3.5 metric tonnes.

How much of your radiation exposure does that account for? Courtesy of the Health Physics Society at the University of Michigan:

http://www.umich.edu/~radinfo/introduction/radrus.htm

the radioactivity from nuclear weapons tests, labeled "fallout" in the above; accounts for LESS THAN 0.03% of your background exposure.

So Caldicott says 1 kilogram will kill everything. There's over 3,500 times that amount of plutonium actually in the environment; but even that gives you <0.03% of the radiation you are normally exposed to.

So Mother Nature is exposing you to 3,000 times the amount of radiation exposure as comes from the years of atmospheric nuclear testing; which in itself is 3,500 times what Caldicott claims will kill all life on the planet.

Caldicott and the anti-nukes have been EXAGGERATING the dangers of radiation and plutonium by factors of MILLIONS, to BILLIONS, or MORE.

The inhaled plutonium particle contention reminds me of AIDS

The inhaled plutonium particle contention reminds me of when we had a bunch of loonies running around fear-mongering about "casual contact" with AIDS sufferers.

They continually asked the question about what would happen to you if you got a single AIDS / HIV virus on you or in you. The HIV virus is found in the sweat and tears of AIDS sufferers; so they "reasoned" that if someone experienced a casual contact with an AIDS patient, they could get an AIDS virus on them or in them. Hence, we had all these people attempting to make AIDS sufferers into modern day lepers that people dare not touch.

We know now, of course; that casual contact is not the way you get AIDS.

As has been already pointed out on this forum, cancer is NOT the most common, or even a highly probable outcome of radiation exposure - even to plutonium. In most cases, the radiation just outright kills the cells it affects. It is only when the radiation jumbles the DNA just right that we get a cancer; and that is actually a relatively RARE occurrence.

So these hypothetical cases about micrograms of plutonium are about as interesting and about as useful as the questions about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

PC disease

Oh that epidemic

Reportedly the initial USA AIDS epidemic was traceable to a single airline steward from Canada. EVERY previous epidemic was handled by quarantine, vector and/or contact tracing. Syphilis, gonorrhea, tuberculosis, scarlet fever and all the rest were ruthlessly traced to source and aggressively treated. HIV/AIDS was summarily granted ‘protected’ status, due to connection to the GLBTQ crowd. President Ronald Reagan acquiesced (or led) this effort; presumably because his son and many Hollywood friends were GLBTQ. HIV/AIDS became the first politically protected, FATAL, preventable, communicable disease. This policy resulted in the death of the USA hemophiliac and homosexual populations of the time. It is a poor ‘public-health’ model to follow.

In my humble opinion

For the record

Quarantine

I OPENLY favored quarantine and contact tracing for HIV/AIDS, just as for syphilis, and any other STD, or historically deadly contagion. These cautionary public-health protocols withstood the tests of time. It was an ill-considered decision to abandon them for family expediency. The decision resulted in many unnecessary funerals. It was some time before the personal motivations of RWR were publicly known in this unfortunate public policy decision.

Contact tracing

1 microgram of PU-239 is 2360

1 microgram of PU-239 is 2360 Bq which is a 46 micron diameter sphere which is 2518 Trillion atoms of PU-239.

To cause cancer you must cause just the right kind of damage to a cell without killing it. Dead cells don't turn cancerous.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/basicnbc/article16radiological71.htm
The range of a 5.8 MeV alpha particle in water is 50 microns. So every cell from the surface of the Pu-239 sphere out to 50 microns is going to be killed pretty much instantly by the alphas. The cells outside of that range are shielded from the alphas and don't receive any dose from them.

Pu-239 also undergoes spontaneous fission and the fission daughter products emit betas and gammas. The dose from those particles will fall off as radius squared from the Pu-239 sphere. There should be a sweet spot at some distance where there is enough dose to maximize the chance that a cell will turn cancerous without so much that you kill the cell.

Interestingly enough if you dissolve that amount of Pu-239 and evenly disperse it throughout the body then you would deposit.

5.8MeV * 2360 * 60 * 60 * 24 *365 = 43e9 MeV/year = 0.0068 Joules/year

Assume a 100kg person and include the factor of 20 because alphas are more damaging and you get 1.3 mSv/year.

The same amount of Plutonium is more dangerous when it's clumped together into "hot particles" than when it's dispersed as a gas.

Bottom line. While I may eat mildly cesium contaminated sushi with aplomb if you tell me there's plutonium "fuel fleas" in the air I will run screaming for the hills.

Chunk Size

Yer kidding, right?

Who EVER suggested that the plutonium 1 ug would be in a SINGLE CHUNK?

Cancer is NOT a joke! The decline in deaths due to childbirth, bacteria, virus, tobacco and trauma; already INCREASE the statistical background death rate from cancer. People live long enough to get cancer and they do not die from 'other'. Thus cancer cases and cancer deaths increase, without a causation link.

Increased respiratory uptake of plutonium, due to Fukushima, is NOT a good thing.

Very BAD indeed

DNA ‘target-rich’ environment

Within your assumed ‘kill radius’ does NOT mean a dead cell. The α particle (helium nucleus) is 1E-15 meters) in diameter. Plus the α wave is 360X360 degrees directional and ‘fires’ only occasionally. The α particle/wave hits what it hits. It is not necessarily a cell killer, even if it transits the cell nucleus, which is a DNA ‘target-rich’ environment.

An individual alpha particle

An individual alpha particle will only affect things along it's path but at 2360 alphas per second coming out of the mass it doesn't take long to hit everything in the 'kill radius'.

0.006 Joules/year in a 50 micron radius sphere is more than enough to turn everything inside into toast.

How much is a millioninth?

How much is a millioninth?

How many airplane rides is that equivalent to?

It's like a 10 minute ride to the airport!

In a Hearse

If the ride is in the back of a hearse, in a body bag or coffin.

To OP

To OP.

Good questions again!

Another subject here.

Lets work together to keep San Onofre shut down for good. I really don't want to try to evacuate if it has an accident in the future.

Winds blow onshore, the only escape route would be to get in a boat and head due west. I don't own a boat.

Self Evacuation

In the event of meltdown

Get an ultra-light, ventilator and 4 jumpsuit. Hose-down or shower when you run out of gas. Change suits, fefill the tank and go again.

Quit when you have travelled 500 miles.

North would be best, most of the time, for the Left Coast.

Never go home. Ignore the 'all clear'.

Good luck, you sound like a survivor, in the all new version of 'Liars Poker'.

Better check your map. Due

Better check your map. Due west will bring you right to Japan! LOL